Lburns

In northern california the new grads start btw 18 to 25 depending on where you work.

Education is worth far more than any money it generates. I went for my BSN knowing it wasn't going to generate more income but I have learned so much more than I thought possible. I used to believe many of the same things other here did, that an ADN was all that was necessary. However, I have since changed my mind and continue forward with changing nursing for the positive. I don't believe anyone needs to feel left behind or belittled, but the time is now for us to take control of our profession. To start with we need to develop a minimum standard degree and that should be a 4yr degree. Once that is done it is time to move forward and change the roots of nursing from other professions making up our standards to us making up our standards. Lets get behind the nursing force and become a force that leads to positive change.

Education is worth far more than any money it generates. I went for my BSN knowing it wasn't going to generate more income but I have learned so much more than I thought possible. I used to believe many of the same things other here did, that an ADN was all that was necessary. However, I have since changed my mind and continue forward with changing nursing for the positive. I don't believe anyone needs to feel left behind or belittled, but the time is now for us to take control of our profession. To start with we need to develop a minimum standard degree and that should be a 4yr degree. Once that is done it is time to move forward and change the roots of nursing from other professions making up our standards to us making up our standards. Lets get behind the nursing force and become a force that leads to positive change.

As a response to the nursing shortage, check with the hospitals, sit on the board, and take a look around. Those tasks we are doing, as Sheripa mentioned before, are tasks that are being taught to others. The RN has been shown to do assessments and intervene effectively, but the LVN and the CNA will be doing the tasks. AS nurses become fewer due to hard work and low pay, the number of laws passed in regards to ancillary care will continue. That is what I originally meant in regards to the nursing shortage, not necessarilly more RNs, but more jobs delegated out there. RNs have very little political power both in hospitals and in WAshington, yet we are a HUGE group of people. Only until we realize our worth and push forward for unity (both in education and pay) we will not be able to use that power. Other countries have seen the light and their nurses are more educated than our nurses putting their health care system ahead of ours. The US was number one in spending but only 33 in providing of care, that is terrible. With nurses getting a 4 year degree and coming to the table armed with knowledge, we will be able to demand better wages, better benefits, better care for the patient and we WILL be able to change things. However, we must move forward and know that things aren't as they were 20 years ago. Technology forces us to become better educated and the health care crisis forces us to get involved. Education is not for those who tire of the bedside, it is for those who wish to continue to provide care on every level.

As a response to the nursing shortage, check with the hospitals, sit on the board, and take a look around. Those tasks we are doing, as Sheripa mentioned before, are tasks that are being taught to others. The RN has been shown to do assessments and intervene effectively, but the LVN and the CNA will be doing the tasks. AS nurses become fewer due to hard work and low pay, the number of laws passed in regards to ancillary care will continue. That is what I originally meant in regards to the nursing shortage, not necessarilly more RNs, but more jobs delegated out there. RNs have very little political power both in hospitals and in WAshington, yet we are a HUGE group of people. Only until we realize our worth and push forward for unity (both in education and pay) we will not be able to use that power. Other countries have seen the light and their nurses are more educated than our nurses putting their health care system ahead of ours. The US was number one in spending but only 33 in providing of care, that is terrible. With nurses getting a 4 year degree and coming to the table armed with knowledge, we will be able to demand better wages, better benefits, better care for the patient and we WILL be able to change things. However, we must move forward and know that things aren't as they were 20 years ago. Technology forces us to become better educated and the health care crisis forces us to get involved. Education is not for those who tire of the bedside, it is for those who wish to continue to provide care on every level.

As our society becomes more technologically advanced and the stream of information and knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, it becomes impossible to learn even the basics in two years. The best nurses are good, not becasue of their degree, but because they are motivated and committed. I couldn't have said it any better. Absolutely a degree is not everything and doesn't make someone a good or bad nurse or even MD. However, the technology and advancements are such that a 2yr degree is not looked upon by others as enough education. Not only for management but for all aspects of nursing. Thanks for the positive feedback.

As our society becomes more technologically advanced and the stream of information and knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, it becomes impossible to learn even the basics in two years. The best nurses are good, not becasue of their degree, but because they are motivated and committed. I couldn't have said it any better. Absolutely a degree is not everything and doesn't make someone a good or bad nurse or even MD. However, the technology and advancements are such that a 2yr degree is not looked upon by others as enough education. Not only for management but for all aspects of nursing. Thanks for the positive feedback.

I understand some people have difficulty taking tests, period, but I bet those same people taking the nclex and failing it would pass the clinical aspects taught during nursing school. That is my point in my posting! A 75 question test does very little to show who is going to be a good nurse or not. I know many people who took the review courses and many who bought the books, all passed. The test is not a very good determinant of nursing skills, critical thinking or leadership, all of which are required to be an entry level nurse. Let's determine a more practical test that really reflects nursing, not one that pulls obscure questions from a computer data system.

I understand some people have difficulty taking tests, period, but I bet those same people taking the nclex and failing it would pass the clinical aspects taught during nursing school. That is my point in my posting! A 75 question test does very little to show who is going to be a good nurse or not. I know many people who took the review courses and many who bought the books, all passed. The test is not a very good determinant of nursing skills, critical thinking or leadership, all of which are required to be an entry level nurse. Let's determine a more practical test that really reflects nursing, not one that pulls obscure questions from a computer data system.

Now you think you are a therapist. I have anger towards people who sit and cry about simle things. You write a post about something that gets people all bent out of shape on when it is discussed with friends and you think that people are going to sit and be happy with it because YOU write it, well you are wrong. We, as you know worked hard in nursing school to get where we are today and for someone of the same profession to come say that we are not good enough because we didn't graduate from a 4 year school is crazy. If you don't consider your self a professional keep to yourself. You should always think that about yourself no matter what you do. I have my opinons and that is what they are, just what I wrote. If you don't like it so what. I don't have to have any anger because the statements I made. YOU are a very funny person for saying that. If someone says something that you don't like or agree with they have a problem. Sounds like you have a little problem there sweetie. Maybe you need to further your education and become a Dr. before you try to go around and making assumptions about what a person has going on in their lives. You know what! I just figured it out! YOU don't have enough control over your life so you try to control others that what it is isn't it. Get a life sweetheart. And as a matter of fact our job is done by other professionals everyday if you want to believe it or not. Go into a hospital that uses a LPN to do a RN's job and all we have to do is there assessment and this pt. has TLC. Or maybe you should go into a home for the Mentally or Physically Disabled, and CNA's or home companions are passing meds and doing tx's. with a 4-hour course that they are taught. And what about this, all of the family members that take care of their loved ones at home and all of the critical thinking that they use when taking care of them. So that is just what we are "GLORIFIED BUTT WIPERS", that must scare you and make you angry, me personally I'm o.k. with it because I knew what I was getting my self into. I know I will have a job after all this is said and done, the shortage of nurses will go on and I will continue on in school because I want to like I said before. Anyone who sees themselves as something other than a professional is the reason why we are not seen as professionals. You that is that classical conditioning and they did a good one on nurses. Go to a nurse who has been a nurse for 25-30 years and you all will understand why you feel the way you feel about yourself. It's called LOW SELF ESTEEM and you all are trying to live up to someone else's expectations. Just be the best nurse that you can be and care about your pts. everything will be alright. When I say you it isn't meant towards any particular person. BYEEEEE[/b] My original post was to generate conversation and empower nurses. I am not angry nor do I feel out of control. I felt a need to respond to your last posting believing maybe you may have misunderstood my intentions. I see that it is futile to converse with you at this time as you seem to have issues other than the issue of promoting nurses. I love nursing, both in management and at the bedside; I love going to school to further my knowledge base. I feel no need to defend myself with you futher, I wish you luck with your career.

Now you think you are a therapist. I have anger towards people who sit and cry about simle things. You write a post about something that gets people all bent out of shape on when it is discussed with friends and you think that people are going to sit and be happy with it because YOU write it, well you are wrong. We, as you know worked hard in nursing school to get where we are today and for someone of the same profession to come say that we are not good enough because we didn't graduate from a 4 year school is crazy. If you don't consider your self a professional keep to yourself. You should always think that about yourself no matter what you do. I have my opinons and that is what they are, just what I wrote. If you don't like it so what. I don't have to have any anger because the statements I made. YOU are a very funny person for saying that. If someone says something that you don't like or agree with they have a problem. Sounds like you have a little problem there sweetie. Maybe you need to further your education and become a Dr. before you try to go around and making assumptions about what a person has going on in their lives. You know what! I just figured it out! YOU don't have enough control over your life so you try to control others that what it is isn't it. Get a life sweetheart. And as a matter of fact our job is done by other professionals everyday if you want to believe it or not. Go into a hospital that uses a LPN to do a RN's job and all we have to do is there assessment and this pt. has TLC. Or maybe you should go into a home for the Mentally or Physically Disabled, and CNA's or home companions are passing meds and doing tx's. with a 4-hour course that they are taught. And what about this, all of the family members that take care of their loved ones at home and all of the critical thinking that they use when taking care of them. So that is just what we are "GLORIFIED BUTT WIPERS", that must scare you and make you angry, me personally I'm o.k. with it because I knew what I was getting my self into. I know I will have a job after all this is said and done, the shortage of nurses will go on and I will continue on in school because I want to like I said before. Anyone who sees themselves as something other than a professional is the reason why we are not seen as professionals. You that is that classical conditioning and they did a good one on nurses. Go to a nurse who has been a nurse for 25-30 years and you all will understand why you feel the way you feel about yourself. It's called LOW SELF ESTEEM and you all are trying to live up to someone else's expectations. Just be the best nurse that you can be and care about your pts. everything will be alright. When I say you it isn't meant towards any particular person. BYEEEEE[/b] My original post was to generate conversation and empower nurses. I am not angry nor do I feel out of control. I felt a need to respond to your last posting believing maybe you may have misunderstood my intentions. I see that it is futile to converse with you at this time as you seem to have issues other than the issue of promoting nurses. I love nursing, both in management and at the bedside; I love going to school to further my knowledge base. I feel no need to defend myself with you futher, I wish you luck with your career.

Couple of rebuttals if you don't mind: "I can't believe that you people have the nerve to sit and say that you are better than someone else because you have a BSN, MSN, PHD, or degree in IDIOT HEAD." Nowhere in my posting is it stated that anyone person is better than anyone else. However, beyond a personal attacks we as a society need nurses with more rounded educations. "Because we as nurses want to be more than what we are. Glorified butt wipers. Yesss. That is all you are." I don't believe that at all and if that is the case, all technical skills can be done by anyone taking an 8hr seminar. That is why it is so important for us to become more educated. We are a very powerful group of professionals but we don't show it. Let's face it, if we were taken as serious as lets say the NRA think of the health care policy we could affect and change. We aren't because people throw out the notions above, stagnating us not only as professionals but as people. "Do you think that because you have more education in THIS particular field you are better than someone else. You are soo wrong. " I don't think I am better than anybody, I do believe I am more prepared to face society and makes changes in health policy. "Besides most of you wont step foot into a nursing home because this is beneath you also, so tell me, who is going to take care of them. Get over it. All you are doing is making a living." I didn't get into nursing for making a living because there are many other ways that are easier to earn money. I sense some anger and perhaps fear in your statements stemming from somewhere other than my meager posting. However, I am in nursing to help people, to makes changes in others life, as a sense of accomplishment at the end of a hard day. I have worked in nursing homes as a volunteer and will continue to do so as I see fit. "because this is only for those who feel as though ADN, Diploma,and LPN's are beneath them. The Heavenly Father only knows what you think of CNA's. " CNAs work very hard, as do all the others. However, it remains their choice to do the job that they do. They certainly work with the rest of us as team players in caring for the pt. "And for your information. I am currently obtaining my BSN just because I want to not to attempt at putting others down." I hope that you find what you are looking for. Your letter exhibits so much anger and reads in so many things that I can only assume were left overs from your own experiences. However, if you truly believe you are a glorified "butt wiper" why ever would you spend the time and energy to get your BSN? I am glad for you but you statements are misleading and confusing. Good luck to you in your endeavors.

Couple of rebuttals if you don't mind: "I can't believe that you people have the nerve to sit and say that you are better than someone else because you have a BSN, MSN, PHD, or degree in IDIOT HEAD." Nowhere in my posting is it stated that anyone person is better than anyone else. However, beyond a personal attacks we as a society need nurses with more rounded educations. "Because we as nurses want to be more than what we are. Glorified butt wipers. Yesss. That is all you are." I don't believe that at all and if that is the case, all technical skills can be done by anyone taking an 8hr seminar. That is why it is so important for us to become more educated. We are a very powerful group of professionals but we don't show it. Let's face it, if we were taken as serious as lets say the NRA think of the health care policy we could affect and change. We aren't because people throw out the notions above, stagnating us not only as professionals but as people. "Do you think that because you have more education in THIS particular field you are better than someone else. You are soo wrong. " I don't think I am better than anybody, I do believe I am more prepared to face society and makes changes in health policy. "Besides most of you wont step foot into a nursing home because this is beneath you also, so tell me, who is going to take care of them. Get over it. All you are doing is making a living." I didn't get into nursing for making a living because there are many other ways that are easier to earn money. I sense some anger and perhaps fear in your statements stemming from somewhere other than my meager posting. However, I am in nursing to help people, to makes changes in others life, as a sense of accomplishment at the end of a hard day. I have worked in nursing homes as a volunteer and will continue to do so as I see fit. "because this is only for those who feel as though ADN, Diploma,and LPN's are beneath them. The Heavenly Father only knows what you think of CNA's. " CNAs work very hard, as do all the others. However, it remains their choice to do the job that they do. They certainly work with the rest of us as team players in caring for the pt. "And for your information. I am currently obtaining my BSN just because I want to not to attempt at putting others down." I hope that you find what you are looking for. Your letter exhibits so much anger and reads in so many things that I can only assume were left overs from your own experiences. However, if you truly believe you are a glorified "butt wiper" why ever would you spend the time and energy to get your BSN? I am glad for you but you statements are misleading and confusing. Good luck to you in your endeavors.

If we are going to be frank the board was an absolute waste of time. They were simple, basic questions anybody could answer and no where near a test of what makes a good nurse. The posting was not about the boards, it is about the professionalism of nursing in the year 2001. The boards are nothing more than a measure of how well you can study the NCLEX notebooks.

If we are going to be frank the board was an absolute waste of time. They were simple, basic questions anybody could answer and no where near a test of what makes a good nurse. The posting was not about the boards, it is about the professionalism of nursing in the year 2001. The boards are nothing more than a measure of how well you can study the NCLEX notebooks.

All aspects of my nursing career have made me a better nurse, including my full time job and my full time attending school. I never knew how much value there was in getting my BSN until I actually did it. I have become polically active and attune to health care in my community and to nursing overall. This information was never covered in the ADN program I attended because there wasnt' time. My point in this was never to put down ADN graduates but to elevate the practice of nursing to greater heights. We will never be taken seriously until we can be seen in the same light as other professions and in the ongoing technological growth we need nurses with 4 yr degrees. Nurses will be in far more demand than just the bedside. LB

All aspects of my nursing career have made me a better nurse, including my full time job and my full time attending school. I never knew how much value there was in getting my BSN until I actually did it. I have become polically active and attune to health care in my community and to nursing overall. This information was never covered in the ADN program I attended because there wasnt' time. My point in this was never to put down ADN graduates but to elevate the practice of nursing to greater heights. We will never be taken seriously until we can be seen in the same light as other professions and in the ongoing technological growth we need nurses with 4 yr degrees. Nurses will be in far more demand than just the bedside. LB

"I also watched BSN come into the hospitals totally unprepared to function on the units, any units! And not only are they unable to function as well as 2yr RNs, they feel the basic nursing skills are beneath them! Give me a two or three yr. RN ANY day! I have watched these so-called "real" nurses ignore patient requests for bedpans, and really anything that might "dirty" those percious educationed hands of theirs! Yes two year RNs may dominate the field, but they are willing to do the work, and give the patients the care they desire! " I have seen all degrees of nurses from all aspects of nursing give good care and bad care. There are prima donnas in every field but my point is to bring us together. Pt care is the focus but in the 21st century we need to push for education to be taken seriously and make policy changes that are best for the pt and for the nurse.

"I also watched BSN come into the hospitals totally unprepared to function on the units, any units! And not only are they unable to function as well as 2yr RNs, they feel the basic nursing skills are beneath them! Give me a two or three yr. RN ANY day! I have watched these so-called "real" nurses ignore patient requests for bedpans, and really anything that might "dirty" those percious educationed hands of theirs! Yes two year RNs may dominate the field, but they are willing to do the work, and give the patients the care they desire! " I have seen all degrees of nurses from all aspects of nursing give good care and bad care. There are prima donnas in every field but my point is to bring us together. Pt care is the focus but in the 21st century we need to push for education to be taken seriously and make policy changes that are best for the pt and for the nurse.