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I see what you're saying. Do anesthesiologists supervise or direct CRNA's ever?

Thanks for posting this--maybe now I can say I know something about the profession. And if anyone questions me, I'll just say that @wtbcrna taught me everything I know

Was the information incorrect though? Doesn't matter the reputation of the site according to you. Just comment on whether or not the information posted is correct. Another note: "works in collaboration with anesthesiologists, surgeons and other physicians.." Read up on CRNA supervision and opt-out laws.... Also read up on CRNA autonomy and independent practice... Lots of people do this. It's one of the utilities of this forum, I believe: to gain information, to have discussions, to learn, to get advice, etc. This thread has actually been very helpful for me. I have no reason to stop participating in a three I started, one which has had many insightful and productive posts, because a handful of posters have taken issue with a couple comments made. Closing the thread or moving on because of this seems like a disproportionate response. I don't have a problem standing up to people when they are acting irrationally. I agree with you that most (probably all) of the people here know more than I do re: anesthesia. That's why I'm here, after all. However, much of the disagreement has had nothing to do with the actual practice of anesthesia, and more to do with semantics. Nah. I'm not trying to teach anyone about their profession. I merely responded to someone accusing me of knowing, "absolutely nothing" about the profession of nurse anesthesia. This was a false accusation, so I countered it. Moreover, I got into a kerfuffle with someone who has rather extreme views, and expressed them in an adversarial way. I've never been an NP, PA, or MD/DO, but I have been the boss of them, and someone working in my clinic acting like that particular poster would have been called into my office and given her walking papers, to hell with what she thinks she knows about her profession. She exhibited unhealthy and unprofessional behavior, and, I apologize, but I would never stand for that behavior in my clinic, so I' not great at dealing with it here. I get it, this is not a professional setting, but, rather, an anonymous, online forum, so I should expect people to act out more here than they probably do in real life. I know people use these forums to vent a lot of times, so I can handle it better in the future perhaps. Again, I have been given great advice here from more people than otherwise, so, ultimately, this thread has been a success.

How's this? A CRNA is a registered nurse and advanced practice nurse who works in collaboration with anesthesiologists, surgeons and other physicians and medical professionals to deliver anesthesia for medical and surgical procedures. A certified registered nurse anesthetist cares for a patient before, during and after a medical procedure or surgery by performing a patient assessment, preparing the patient for anesthesia, administering and maintaining the anesthesia to ensure proper sedation and pain management, overseeing patient recovery from anesthesia and caring for the patient's immediate post-operative needs. CRNA's work in the same environments as anesthesiologists, including hospital operating rooms, labor and delivery units, critical and intensive care floors, outpatient centers, offices of dentists, ophthalmologists, plastic surgeons and podiatrists, pain management clinics and in management. In many military and government medical facilities, including Navy ships, nurse anesthetists are the only providers of anesthesia. CRNAs work closely with patients and their families to ensure proper care and comfort and, as such, are regarded with respect by nursing and medical personnel. You make a lot of polarizing, absolutist statements and claims. Because of this--and likely due to your anger--you put yourself in the position of saying things that are untrue, and, thus, in the position of being called out and made to look like you, in fact, are the one who doesn't know what she is talking about. For the record, I do have some idea of what CRNA's do (and probably a better idea of what they do than you care to admit), contrary to your accusation that I have "absolutely no idea..." Ummm.... I'm not a CRNA. I'm already scheduled to shadow at a critical access hospital.

You seem like a reasonable, level-headed person.

Fantastic post! Thank you so much. I think your point about getting the "RN" in CRNA by working as a nurse is right on, and makes a lot of sense. I can see how just being in the hospital in a setting of high acuity and having to manage bedside care of patients on the brink would be invaluable. Thanks for making that clear.

*Edited* Cool story, bro. I have been encouraged by the feedback from those who have made the fast-track work for them. It gives me hope that it can be done, and I'm eager to hear back from the programs I have contacted. I will look in more-depth at AA's, and will begin completing my application to PA programs this week. Thanks for all the help, everyone!

I really appreciate your feedback, and the details you provided. Your final two points are where I believe I stand out. Having worked in healthcare administration for a few years, and being on track to have an MPH in less than a year, I believe my application is remarkable in ways that are probably uncommon among the typical CRNA applicant pool. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My science GPA is 3.8, and includes around 80 hours of upper-level science coursework, such as advanced chemistry, biology, and physics classes, as well as graduate coursework in biostatistics, epidemiology, healthcare management and policy, and so on. I have 150 hours of shadowing physicians and PA's. I have worked closely with NP's and RN's from my clinic management days, and I have lots of close connections in my local medical community. I have worked in disaster relief, program management, clinical research, and humanitarian efforts. I have the nurse aide certification and BLS. I have definitely hit a wall as I've read and learned more about CRNA. I do feel some inertia with going back to get another bachelors degree (100% out of pocket expense), and taking an entry-level job as an RN--knowing it is a distinct possibility that I won't be able to land an ICU job as a new grad--just so I can meet the minimum requirements for the programs. It feels like taking several steps back to take one step forward. Anesthesiology assistant programs are tempting, though they have such a limited number of states where they can practice, and, by and large, seem to represent a dying profession. Since CRNA's are the nationally recognized and accepted anesthetists among health systems and with physician groups, as well as having a much better public relations department, I don't really see AA as a solid longterm bet. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back from the handful of direct-entry MSN programs for non-nurses that have linkages with CRNA programs (such as UPenn, Columbia, etc.). These seem to be the best suited for someone, such as myself, looking for the most direct path. Thanks again for your thoughtful post. I appreciate it.

1. I know this. The schools in my area are going to have 36-month programs in 2020. I actually prefer the 36-month program option, since I believe extra training in such a specialty is a very good thing. As an aside, I think it would actually make a lot more sense to have all programs as 3-4 years in length without requiring ICU experience ahead of time. Allow students to have the BSN to get the beneficial health-related knowledge, and then use the extra year(s) beyond year 2 to teach students advanced monitoring, advanced pharmacology and pathophys, or whatever it is programs believe a student learns in the ICU during the required minimum 12 months. This is basically how all other medical training programs function. 2. I don't necessarily disagree. Nevertheless, I am still interested in the shortest distance between two points (which is a straight line); even if I cannot achieve my goal in the shortest timeframe that is theoretically possible, I would like to know what that timeframe is, and shoot for it. Reading the forums in greater depth has shown me that there are many people who have been accepted into CRNA programs with the minimum required ICU experience. It can be done. There is even another profession that nearly identically mirrors nurse anesthesia (that I won't name for fear of nurse rage), where the students are not required to have any previous healthcare experience at all before getting trained. Students are accepted to medical schools without previous healthcare experience, and there are some PA programs that don't require it. The real training should come from the specialty program itself, not necessarily from a background in an ultimately unrelated discipline. This is all to say I'm not personally convinced that ICU experience is a critical (pun) component to make for an effective and excellent SRNA, and, ultimately, CRNA. CRNA programs wax in great detail about the excellence of their training. If these program descriptions are to be believed, I think an intelligent and motivated student can be brought up to level in the amount of time given, and with the accepted and approved number of required clinical cases. Unlike others on this website, I look forward to advanced and prolonged mentoring by physicians once I am in practice. I see it as tantamount to residency training/apprenticeship, and I think oversight by an anesthesiologist is a very good thing. Though I eventually want to practice in a rural setting, with increased independence as time goes on, I have no desire to be independent right away, and I can see how such a setup would be problematic. 3. As a healthcare administrator by trade, and public health professional by training, I use "physician extender" because it is an apt term, that is essentially globally accepted, and only in nursing circles have I ever found it to be considered inappropriate. I didn't mean it to be offensive, but, frankly, if you find it offensive you must walk around feeling offended in perpetuity, since this is the standard industry language used for PA's and NP's. Thanks for your post!

Great point. Your advice is solid, and has been offered by others in my personal life. I am going to apply to PA school (the application just opened today), and see where I end up. PA school is incredibly competitive--statistically more competitive than med school admissions--so I am cautious about my chances of getting in. This is why I plan to apply to PA and nursing programs, both, and see what comes of it. I believe I would prefer to be an anesthetist, but I could find contentment as a PA. The profession ranks in the top 5 nearly every year for best job, so I definitely wouldn't be upset if I was fortunate enough to be accepted. Thanks for your suggestion.

Your post is incredibly helpful--thank you! Regarding your suggestion to get a job as an ICU clerk/tech, is this a job to get after I complete the BSN, or one to have while I'm in the program? I'm not sure what a tech or clerk does, so I'm clueless as to the qualifications needed to be one. I do have a nurse aide certification, if that helps. You said it is theoretically possible to get into a CRNA program with the one year ICU experience, and, though I'm sure it's rare, what, in your opinion, is it that makes admissions committees consider applicants with the minimum experience? Are CRNA programs really looking primarily for applicants with years in the ICU as RN's, or for applicants with other qualifications and experience, such as my background in healthcare administration, a masters in public health, and a high science GPA? Can my other attributes offset the minimal ICU experience? Thanks again for your thoughtful and productive input.

Well, then I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion you did. Thanks for the wishes, and take care.

Reading my post would be helpful to clarify for you what I'm talking about. Never once did I suggest I am looking for a quick career change. I said I am looking for something shorter than becoming a physician, and that I wanted to know the most expeditious way to achieve a career in nurse anesthesia. There is more to the post than the title. Please read before commenting.

Thanks for your input! I never said or implied that the path to becoming a CRNA is easy. I'm not sure how you got that from my post. I did well enough in my premed journey to get acceptances to several MD/DO programs should I have chosen to apply. Like I said though, I'm not interested in 4 years of medical school, and a 4-5 year residency (to go into the specialty I would want) plus a one-year fellowship. At that point I would leave training as a newbie physician, in my mid-forties, just starting my career, with a mountain of debt, and years gone by. Nurse anesthesia would provide the intellectual rigor I would find stimulating, a complexity of patient care, and, since I intend on moving to a rural community to practice, it would likely provide a good amount of autonomy in practice--though being in the co-pilots seat is not something that bothers me at this time; if I have to have oversight by an MDA, I'm not really worried about that, and it certainly isn't a deterrent. Being a physician-extender is what I'm looking to do in my life now, and based upon the myriad conversations I've had with providers of all kinds, and the research I've done, nurse anesthesia seems to be the best fit for me. It is totally fair and reasonable to wonder what the most expeditious path is to accomplish this goal, and in no way does asking about that imply that I think it will be easy. I don't think becoming a CRNA will be easy, but it will be more manageable than becoming a physician. to recap: I don't think it will be easy. I neither said nor insinuated it. I do believe it will be more manageable, both from a financial standpoint, weekly time commitment, and overall fewer years of direct training (minus the 1-2 years spent working in ICU as an RN).

This is my first post (obviously) on this forum, and I'm glad to be here. I've gleaned quite a lot reading the threads here, and now feel ready to seek advice on my situation. I worked for a few years as an executive-level healthcare administrator for a primary care clinic for the uninsured. My experiences there convinced me that I wanted a clinical career, as I longed for the patient contact. I took the normal sequence of coursework to apply to medical school and did quite well, while taking additional courses to broaden my knowledge base and application credentials (patho, micro, A&P, pharm, numerous psych classes, med terminology, etc.). Well, once the time came around to apply to medical school last year, I decided it wasn't for me. I'm an older student, and didn't like the idea of leaving my family in the trenches for 10+ years while I trained to become a physician, no matter how cool I thought the career would be--my family just matters more to me, and I don't want to miss my children's childhood. After doing much research, having many discussions with personal friends, some who are MD's, some NP's, and others PA's, I have decided I want to seriously consider nurse anesthesia. I have called programs, looked through brochures, and emailed program directors. What I am seeking from this community is help from those out in the field (as SRNA's or CRNA's) to guide me through the quick-route, if one exists. There is a local ABSN program that I am going to apply to for next May. I am also looking at UPenn's direct-pathway BSN-MSN program as an option, but I haven't heard back from anyone there despite an email sent and a phone message left. And then I know I need a minimum of one year in ICU to even be considered for CRNA programs. Realistically, what is the fastest track to CRNA? Is it possible to get an ICU job as a new grad BSN? Is it possible to get into a CRNA program with the one-year minimum work experience in ICU? Ideally (yes, I realize few things ever work out ideally), I would like to go through the process systematically, and in the shortest required time frame (13 months ABSN, 12 months ICU, 24 months accelerated CRNA) and be out by the time I would have had I gone to medical school (minus residency). Thanks in advance for your input and advice!