middleagegal

Thanks for the input on your experience. Would you mind sharing more about locations where you are searching? I'm glad you found this thread and added your experience. This is important information. I am wondering if a pmhnp would be able to get work as an RN if they were not able to find a job as a pmhnp? Obviously this would not be ideal but better than unemployment. Maybe other recent grads will have something more to add to the conversation.

Not true. I am really interested. You are right, I am not a nurse, which is why I am asking. As an outsider I would assume that these programs are vetted and there are science based reasons they are approved or not approved. Obviously you have a different opinion and I am interested. Like I said, I don't want to make a mistake here. I feel like in my first M.S. I was mislead as to the utility of my degree in the job market, primarily because the school was more interested in getting my tuition money than in me being successful, so I know that happens. On the other hand, my program did not require licensure from an outside body so there is no oversight. Not the case with nursing, thus my question. As a lay person, I am surprised and maybe a little alarmed to hear that insiders don't hold the licensing agency in very high regard. I'm just trying to collect information and get as many opinions as possible here in order to help make my decision, please don't fault me for that.

I wish financing my education was an option. Just a little fyi out there, I worked full time through my entire undergraduate career but still needed a few small loans. The bulk of my loans are from graduate school, which will never pay for itself. Like I said before, hindsight is 20/20. With the benefit of hindsight I often wish I had never gone to graduate school, but only from a financial perspective. I definitely made some bad choices but I have been punishing myself for those choices for over a decade, it's time for me to let go and move on. For me that is going to mean at least some of my school will have to be borrowed. I live in a very expensive area (again no choice due to husbands job) as frugally as possible, and with retirement closer for my husband than most students all of our extra money has to go there. Ok, with that out of the way as it seems this thread has kind of gone in that direction. I am really interested in the differing perspectives here. One thing I wonder about is this. Obviously the school does not have full authority to allow a DE route to PMHNP. The BON has to approve this route as well. So given that the Board of Nursing who oversees the process approves this route, and it is obviously made up of people with nursing experience, why would they approve this route if it was quote "dangerous"? It seems to me they would be in a pretty good position to recognize whether or not this type of program presented a safety risk. Any thoughts?

Yes, someone will lend me money when I already have student debt. Most people finance graduate educations this way. It may seem crazy, it may be crazy, but with the currently exorbitant cost of higher education, there are few options. Being a Suze fan myself I understand your point. Here is the deal, I am already a middleaged person strapped with more student debt than I will ever pay off with in my current field. I had the unfortunate luck of graduating in a field just at the same time the job market was starting to drop due to a change in the way research is looked at and funded in this country. Not entirely my fault, but hindsight is 20/20. I wish I had done something different, I didn't. So now, I need to change careers and make enough money to pay back that debt as well as survive and if it means taking on more debt to do that, then that is what I need to do. While student loan debt can be difficult to pay back, it is more difficult to pay back when staying employed has become difficult in your field and most job opportunities pay in the 40k range (forever, no advancement). When adjusting for inflation, I have actually taken pay cuts over the past 5 years. I can't continue to do that. As was previously mentioned, there is assistance for paying back student loans. You can pay them back contingent on your salary, you can get credit for working in underserved areas, and you can get them discharged after 10 years for working full time in a non-profit or government agency. For me, taking on more debt in order to more than double my current earning potential actually makes sense. Though I can certainly understand why there is hesitation. Certainly I would prefer to do it as inexpensively as possible, which is why I am currently restricting my school search to State Schools.

I don't think I'm clear. I'm not unsure about doing the PMHNP, what I'm unsure of is the best path to take. I know where I want to be, the only question in my mind is the best way to get there. Remember, I'm on a timeline here and that is a big part of my dilemma. I can't really afford to wait so long that the DNP may be in effect. Additionally, the sooner I finish and get out into the job market, the sooner I can not only help my family but start paying off my student loans. Not to mention saving for retirement. As for waiting, time is a luxury I really don't have. I need to make a decision and head that direction in the most straight forward way possible. When you are making a midlife, career change time is a very important factor. The longer it is before you start working, the less time you will be working in your career. This affects the math when it comes to weighing the cost of education against future earning potentials. I feel like my question is a little lost now. I am not questioning the career, just the best way to get there and whether or not it would be a mistake to enter the DE MSN PMHNP program. This would be the most expedient path to take, but my question is would I have difficulty obtaining employment after taking that path. Perhaps I should also ask what the employment outlook is like in my specific area of the country as well?

I may do that. My primary concern with asking this question is to get some feedback on employment outlook, especially if you go DE route. I just can't afford once again to follow my gut/heart and find myself unemployable or only employable making about half what I need for my family. You know?

Wow, Ok I really do appreciate the diversity of opinions from you guys. I think they are all valuable. I'm not sure it is making my decision easier, but it is definitely giving me plenty to think about. Just for clarity, I am interested in PMHNP because that is where my primary interest lies; it is where I think I would prefer to be eventually. My concern is whether to do direct route or do a BSN first, with a year or so of RN work, then apply to the MSN program. Another option would be DE MSN without an NP specialty, then work a year and then do post-grad NP. (that is were the concern over student loans comes in) As far as ease of getting in, at least where I am looking the dE PMHNP program is the most competitive to get into. Unfortunately I am married with a baby and moving is absolutely not an option. I either have to do a program near me or an online program, period. So my choices are limited by that. Additionally, I would like to get my NP as soon as possible to avoid any possible requirements for the DNP that may start in the next 5 years. In terms of my current career, I didn't choose something I don't like, I chose something where I can't make a living. Being young and in college and all "I'm going to do what I love" didn't work out so well when I factor in the cost of my education and the rising cost of living. People in my organization haven't had a raise in 7 years. I work in research and since federal money to support research has dried up, we operate on a shoestring. I love what I do and in a perfect world I would finish my pHD and keep working in it. However, the world is not perfect. I need to be able to replace my husbands salary in a few years when he is forced to retire, something I will never be able to do in my current field. As for PMHNP, I have volunteered for several years in an organization that serves at risk children, and have had experiences there as well as personal family and work experiences that lead me in that direction. I have seen so many families affected by the lack of access to mental health services that I feel like this is an area where I can have an impact. What I really like about PMHNP is the opportunity to prescribe when needed but to also recognize when shoving a pill down a kids throat may not be the answer. I would like to work with people across the life span but particularly with children as I have seen first hand again how difficult it can be to find practitioners who are comfortable treating children. Ok, I hope that clears some things up. Keep the opinions coming as I am really interested in what people with experience have to say and feel about these options.

Thanks chemokine, I need to double check that post-grad issue. I felt like that was something I read on the schools website, maybe I need to double check that. As for the DE MSN/NP, that is what I am really interested in, and started the post with. However several responders seemed to indicate that they felt this was a bad idea as I would enter the NP field lacking any practical RN experience. What are your thoughts on that? Would a DE program make it difficult for me to obtain employment or be successful in an NP career?

I"m sorry. Maybe I did not make this very clear. Let me try to clarify. What I was speaking of was the option to get the MSN first without an NP specialty. Then do post-graduate classwork to fulfill the NP requirements in order to become an NP post MSN. This would allow me to get the MSN, (skipping the BSN), then work as an RN before doing coursework for NP as a post-graduate. Because post-graduate training does not lead to a degree, I was given the impression by something I read that it does not qualify for student loans. My understanding was that in order to qualify for student loans you have to be in a degree program, not just taking classes. Soooo, if I do the MSN without NP first. I would not qualify for student loans to do the post graduate training in NP. On the other hand if I did the AE PMHNP, I could still work as an RN afterwards in order to gain some experience but would not have the additional classwork to worry about later in order to obtain my NP. Gee, that was a lot. I hope that made more sense.

Ok, well my thoughts were similar with regard to posting on the NP forum, however since it has been moved to the student forum; are there any PMHNP students here doing what I am considering, the AE MSN program without practicing as an RN first? If so, what have you learned about employment prospects via this route?

Wow psych guy. What a different perspective. I appreciate it as a counter to other perspectives, though it does complicate my decision to get this take. I would really like to hear from some new grad PMHNP's to get their perspective on employment. I have also heard that Psychiatrists can be the toughest specialty to accept NP's. Does anyone know how much truth there is in that? I also wonder how much different it would be to do the AE PMHNP program and work as an RN during the M.S. portion of the program than it would be to do the BSN first, then work and apply to PMHNP. By the time you completed M.S. you would have some RN experience, but probably not full time. I just don't know. It's really a tough call. All of this is of course assuming I could even get accepted into the AE PMHNP program.

Oh i realize I would need to pass NCLEX. The program is set up where you do a full calender year completing RN work then take NCLEX at the end of that first year. After that, you continue class work for 2 more years to complete MSN. You are able to work as an RN during this time and take classes part time as an option. As for prereq's I have a M.S. in biology so I already have most of those. I will need to take a couple of things because of the amount of time that has elapsed since my degree, but I feel pretty confident about being able to complete the prereq's without much trouble, just a matter of taking the time to do them. As I mentioned, I am a midcareer individual who has hit a very low ceiling for pay and advancement. An M.S. in biology is essentially useless in the job market. I started out with the idea of a medical career, changed my mind midway through my bachelors as I "fell in love with bio and wanted a research career" and now regret it for both personal and financial reasons. I need to make a career change and am exploring my options. Maybe I should consider just getting a second degree BSN, I know that can be done in a calender year, then getting a job and exploring applying to an NP program. I just want to get my schooling done ASAP as I mentioned, waiting 5 years is just not an option.

Ok, maybe this is an ignorant question. If it is impossible to be successful as an PMHNP without several years of RN experience, why do SON offer DE or AE PMHNP programs? I'm not doubting you, just having some difficulty understanding why this avenue exists. Is it just about getting tuition money with no concern for employ-ability or professional success after graduation? Has anyone out there gone this route? I'd like to hear your experiences.

Not at all. I appreciate your candor. I have actually considered this and wondered, while this may sound crazy. Would I be able to get employment as an RN even with the PMHNP, or would people be hesitant to hire me in that capacity? That may sound nuts, but my thought process is if I can get the academic preparation for PMHNP done, then gain some experience before actually going to work on my own as an NP, it would mean being able to take my time gaining some experience, not have to feel huge pressure to get a higher paying NP job during a time in my life when I can afford to do that financially while at the same time avoiding that possible DNP requirement in a few years. That is something I really want to avoid as there is no way I can spend the amount of time and money required to get the DNP. I could still do some continuing Ed while working as an RN, then after a couple or 3 years doing RN work, feel more prepared to go to work as an actual PMHNP. I have a family situation that would allow me to take off work and do school now, but in another few years that will not be the case. In fact, I need to be able to make a decent living within 7 or 8 years from now. (I have a toddler and a husband who will be forced to retire in 7 years; I know; Don't ask) I am really feeling the pressure to go to school now and get that done while my husband is still working full time and I can arrange for child care. I don't know is that totally crazy? As far as PA, my heart just isn't in it. I could probably do it, I'd need to take a few more prereq classes and do some different types of volunteer work, but that's not a huge issue. It's more just a personality thing, I'm not sure it's really right for me. I appreciate your insight.

Hello all, I am hoping to get the low down dirty truth here. I've recently found myself at a dead end in my current M.S. level career (not nursing) and need to make some decisions. I have kicking around the idea of becoming an NP. I have a friend who went to PA school and tried to talk me into that, but NP is more appealing to me for a number of reasons. I am especially drawn to PMHNP for a number of reasons, and the fact that I can do it in an AE program in only 3 years adds to the appeal. I do however have concerns about the job market for PMHNP. I am in a financial situation with current student loans and a family to support that just will not allow me to gamble with this. I spent too many years and way too much money on my first M.S. only to find myself unable to even keep up with the interest on my student loans for over a decade. While I have always been a proponent of doing what you love, at some point I have to make a large part of my decision based on the ability to find employment and make a reasonable living for my family. My first degree was chosen by following my heart and it has been a financial disaster. I can't afford to make that mistake twice. What does the job market look like for PMHNP? I have read some instances where PMHNP's have complained that they are unable to find jobs or MD's willing to allow them to work under them. I know that money should not be the primary reason you choose a specialty and I realize that FNP or even PNP would offer more flexibility in finding a position. However, I also realize it would take more time, which means more time until I can start earning a living, and I really do keep feeling myself pulled to PMHNP. I also realize the AE PMHNP programs can be highly competitive and therefor it may not even end up being an option, but I don't want to count it out, if it is where I want to be, then it makes sense to just try for the AE program. Also, it is my understanding that if you get your MSN without doing NP, then post graduate work can not be funded with student loans, if that understanding is correct then it puts me in a further predicament, once again making the PMHNP AE program seem appealing. I would appreciate any insight into the realities of finding work as a PMHNP. Additionally, I am located in Texas and would not be able to move in the near future.