RN_MEDIC

Bump TTT

New Post comparing pros and cons of MSN vs. DNP SCRNA school can be viewed here: https://allnurses.com/certified-registered-nurse/attn-crnas-amp-1006865.html#post8664729 Attn CRNA's & SRNA's: DNP/DNAP vs. MSN/MSNA - What pros and cons are there?

Pros to entry into practice DNP program: Prepares you utilize more evidence based practice. Is becoming the standard degree for a career in academics. Shows the medical community your commitment to anesthesia. You wouldn't have to worry about going back for the DNP later if you completed a masters and decided later down the road that you wanted a doctorate. Maybe the coursework and/or clinical portion in the post-masters DNP is more time consuming than that of the entry level DNP programs. See number 18 of pros list. Most DNP curriculums are relatively new (Maybe not the CRNA School itself, but the change from MSN to DNP), maybe the programs will have some leniency and flexibility as the schools work out any issues involving a new curriculum, as not to overload the SRNA's. The costs of obtaining a post-masters DNP may be higher than that of the DNP courses in an entry level DNP program, this is due to a number of factors (e.g., University attended, number of credits required, charges per semester, application and transcript fees, etc.). Some people will have more satisfaction in knowing that they have the highest degree offered. Some MSN CRNA's deciding to obtain the DNP may not like being "supervised" during the clinical practicum portions of the post-masters DNP, whatever that may entail. Provides additional leadership training. Provides additional tools to research and utilize evidence-based practice. It's typically only an additional 8 months versus a minimum of 12 months for a post-masters DNP. See numbers 2 and 3 on the cons list for additional clarification. Psychologically, for some people, it may be less difficult to complete the front-loaded DNP schooling (Depending on the program) while working as a RN, rather than dragging yourself to complete the post-masters DNP coursework after having already gone through CRNA school (e.g., After graduating a MSN most people want to relax). There is some speculation of a slight hiring preference for DNP CRNA's. By 2025, it will be required that entry level of practice will be a DNP. In 30 years, a MSN will likely be viewed as the equivalent of a certificate in Nurse Anesthesia. Maybe there will be a preference given to DNP CRNA's in regards to COA accredited fellowship opportunities (e.g., Hamline University - Post-Graduate Advanced Pain Management Fellowship) - There will certainly be more fellowships to come! Perhaps we will see some cardiothoracic, pediatric, neurosurgical, regional, and/or obstetrical anesthesia fellowships in the near future! There is supposedly more clinical hours in DNP programs, but how many of these hours are clinical anesthesia? I think that most or all MSN programs require some sort of research paper or a capstone project? However, the DNP students may have the opportunity further enhance their research paper or capstone project that MSN students would be doing otherwise, thus the DNP capstone project may not be all that difficult and time consuming if that were the case? Cons to entry into practice DNP program: Maybe the DNAP content would distract SRNA's from learning the core content of anesthesia? SRNA's enrolled in a 24-33 month MSN program are probably less likely to be burned out by graduation than SRNA's enrolled in a 36-42 month DNP program. You could always attend a post-masters MSN-DNP program and complete it on your time in 3-9 semesters (12-36 months). The 2 additional semesters that entry level DNP SRNA's must complete would take away many of the opportunities MSN SRNA's have over the DNP SRNA's. Some examples of these opportunities available to MSN students include a greater opportunity to save money, more time to gain additional ICU experience, more time to study CRNA material before classes start, etc. The aforementioned example is given a scenario of a DNP cohort starting in January and a MSN cohort starting in August of the same year. In the event that both the MSN and DNP cohorts start in the same semester, than the MSN SRNA would graduate 2 semesters sooner than the DNP SRNA and would thus forth be able to start working earlier. Missing out on the opportunity to simply be grandfathered in. Paying for a post-masters DNP program while making a CRNA income would be financially easier than paying for the doctoral classes in an entry level DNP program with loans and savings. The opportunity costs associated with either not working, or working less hours during the additional 2 semesters in a DNP program can be a deal breaker for some people. Opportunity costs are certainly a factor to consider. Less money going into CRNA school (e.g., MSN or DNP) for most people means more loans and more interest, plus add to this the extra 2 semesters of the DNP if you should choose that as your entry level of practice. From what it looks like, most of the DNP content is what many people would consider to be "nursing fluff" (e.g., Theory, Informatics, Professional Philosophy, etc.). Trying to balance completing the fluff, while studying for multiple exams, while learning new clinical procedures all in the same week. Counterstatements can be made to the pros list, pick out the statement and figure out if the counterstatement is valid and more practical for your purposes. Some questions that could use some clarification: · What is the residency in doctoral nursing practice? How about the capstone project? How involved are they? How involved are they in an entry level DNP vs a post-masters DNP? How valid is point number 18 from the pros list? · How distracting is the DNP content while learning anesthesia in an entry level DNP program? · How great is the hiring preference for DNP vs MSN CRNA's? Non-existent or Negligible? What are your thoughts about the future hiring preference? Do you think there will be a preference in the future similar to that of the ADN vs. BSN RN? · Is there more clinical anesthesia hours in most DNP CRNA programs vs. the MSN CRNA programs? · Which degree would you choose and why? Keywords: MSN MSNA DNP DNAP MSN-DNP MSN-DNAP MSNA-DNP MSNA-DNAP CRNA SRNA Doctorate of Science in Nurse Anesthesia Doctor Masters AANA BSN BSN-MSN BSN-MSNA BSN-DNP BSN-DNAP DMPNA Doctor of Management Practice in Nurse Anesthesia MSN-DNP Program Anesthesiology Anesthetist MS Master of Health Science Biology PhD DNP-A Graduate Certificate Dual

The school I got into has both the DNAP and MSN routes for entry into practice. There is not a MSN to DNAP program offered at my school. The admission committee said there was no preference for DNAP applicants vs. MSN applicants. I chose DNAP and got in, they said any student accepted to the program can switch before the DNAP program begins (January). The MSN begins in August, and those students basically join the DNAP students in the fall. Although I can afford the DNAP, I don't think I will, mostly I'm concerned about the strain I'll be under trying to balance learning anesthesia and writing papers/capstone, etc. I want to go to school and maximize every hour of my time while in the program, perform as much PNB as possible, seek out all opportunities in clinical, etc.

Well, I've been blessed with the opportunity to attend either the MSN or the DNAP from the same University. 1 year later and I am still torn between which I should choose. Plus side to DNAP, more marketability after graduation (Debatable), prestige/personal accomplishment, not have to go to school again. Downsides of DNAP, will cost me ~$15-20K more in tuition costs alone, will cost me $50-75K in terms of opportunity costs associated with lost income for the extra 2 semesters I will be in school and unable to work, the $50-75K opportunity cost will mean I will have to take out $50-75K more loans with interest that accrues, missed opportunity to simply be grandfathered in, addition of nursing fluff (e.g., Lots of nursing theory), trying to balance completing fluff while studying for multiple exams in class, while trying to learn new clinical cases/procedures, while trying not to have a mental breakdown. Does anyone have anything they could add to this list? Which would you choose?

ShawnyD, thank you so much for sharing what your method of preparation was. I'll certainly be preparing in a similar fashion. From what I've commonly seen, RN's studying for CCRN usually use Gaspari's vids and take notes, plus the test questions on the CD from PASSCCRN and they do great. Commonalities I see with the CSC are Gaspari's vids, CSC CD from AACN, plus a Cardiac surgical book such as Hardin Kaplow Cardiac Surgery Essentials, on top of their CVICU/OH Recovery experience and they do great. as per a AACN rep, she mentioned that that the CMC is tougher than the CSC in part because medical involves so many diseases and the CSC has an overwhelmingly large section on the Swan, she says to know the swan like the back of your hand for CSC, if you know it, you will do stellar!

Preference for DNAP? while I understand why there wouldn't be preference for an MSN, the counterpart may not have that many advantages, however, I'm no SRNA so I am uncertain. This is indeed what I am trying to figure out. Would the DNAP content distract anesthesia students from focusing on anesthesia, with all due respect to global nursing, population based nursing, healthcare economics, etc. Missnurse01 states the whole first year of didactics in her program is free from DNAP content and students can take one extra class the last 4 semesters of the MSNA then do one semester post MSNA and are awarded the DNAP. I have heard that some programs offer the "fluff" courses for just one week per class in an integrated fashion, while some offer the "fluff" during the immediate beginnings of the program and thus focus on anesthesia in later semesters, in a frontloaded fashion. Is there any truth to this?

C'mon SRNA's let's hear your stats!

Hello all, After researching a few DNAP CRNA programs, it seems that the programs have integrated the content of DNAP studies into all semesters of the CRNA programs. I do however, wonder if the integration of the DNAP classes that many consider to be "fluff" would distract SRNA's from the core content of anesthesia. There are classes on theory, global health, population based care, etc. that are integrated into DNAP CRNA curriculum; while these classes are certainly beneficial, perhaps they are better left for a post CRNA MSN grad-DNAP program. My question is which program would you choose and why? Also, I've heard from one other person that the "fluff" classes in CRNA school are typically 1 week in length, but I have yet to hear another persons account of this; is this typical with your program?

Just called over to AACN yesterday. As per the phone conversation, "MICU" experience qualifies for the CMC as long as 50% of the patients have issues that are cardiac in nature, so I guess this pertains to admitting diagnosis, however, this can also mean comorbid conditions or history possibly?? But I can say that the rep I spoke with gave me the impression that the experience isn't looked into so much, just study for the material and take the test. As for the SICU experience, she also stated yes, you can take the CSC as a SICU nurse so long as 50% of the patients you care for are cardiac surgical patients, within the first 48 hours post-op.

I wonder if MICU or SICU experience would qualify one for the CMC or CSC; does anyone have any input on this?

Keep this thread active! We've got some really good responses!

I agree, the UA reps can be pushy with the books and registering for classes.

As you can read in my previous post, I'm in the JU RN-BSN program now and can say that I am having a good experience. This past session I took Evidence based practice and Nursing assessment together and the beginning was wasn't super challenging; however, you have to plan 1-2 weeks ahead of week 7 because that week is PACKED with assignments, I prepared ahead of time 10 days in advance and was working down to the last hour, but I am very detail oriented.

I agree, Jacksonville University has been good to me!