M&MRN2005

For assisted living facilities, they use med techs and they fall under the federal guidelines which are different than the NC guidelines and the Medication Aides. There is a lot more training for med techs under the federal govt, than NC is proposing for med aides. Also the residents in assisted living facilties are mostly capable of taking care of themselves. They have the mental ability to know if a mediciation is incorrect.

what type of facility did you work in? who is supervising these people? why are the med aides ordering medications for the patients. a med aides only responsibility is the task of giving the med to the patient. nothing more. if so, this is violation of nc state law!!!!

there are 14 states that currently allow medication aides. other states are trying to impose this type of legislation, but thanks to their nurses associations, the legislation was defeated. the ncna (north carolina nurses asssociation) was for this legislation along with the nc hospital association, as long as hospitals were not affected. gee thanks!! it is a sad day when associations agree with legislation "just because it doesn't affect them." the relief efforts for hurricane katrina victims really doesn't affect nc, but i hope that we are outraged at how the relief efforts have been handled. suppose we as american citizens sat back and did "nothing" just because it did not effect us. we live in a sad state of affairs when $$$ comes before people's health and safety.

i may be out of line with my post, but here goes. i am glad to see that nc is getting some feedback on this issue. yes, at the 11th hour, this legislation was slide into the 2005 appropriations bill. how sad! please keep in mind: this was all after the board of nursing voted "that an rn could not delegate the task of medication administration to a medication aide and after the north carolina community college system decided not to add medication aide to their cirriculum." i am sure that the public and even the rn's and lpn's of nc would love to hear about this legislation. not only are these uap's/med aides going to be in ltc, our schools have been targeted now. these two target areas house our most vunerable populations: our children and our elderly. i am the designer of the website www.ncpama.org. referenced in an earlier post. i applaud the nc nurses forum for taking on this issue because i believe that an informed public can have an opinion and should be given the opportunity to make an informed decision, instead of having an issue shoved down their throats, as this is. i wrote my legislators and here is part of my plea to them. :rotfl: "... "the nc board of nursing states, "the medication aides will administer "routine" meds." what constitutes routine meds? all medication can have potentially dangerous side effects, especially in our elderly and compromised patient's. they are an extremely fragile group of people who very often are subjected to medication errors even from licensed personnel whether it is a doctor, pharmacist, or a nurse. the legislation proposed is focused mainly on medication aides passing meds to our elderly population. (and now schools)what does this say about our society? how much value do we place on our elderly (and now young) population? what about the disabled? are they, too, such a disposable group of people? i have worked very hard and made a lot of sacrifices to get through nursing school. i will obtain my license shortly after may 2005. my purpose for going to nursing school was to study hard, learn nursing theory, criticial thinking skills, pharmacology, and clinical abilities. i have learned to apply theory to practice and know the side effects of medications i give to my patient's. i know when to question a dose of medication or whether to hold a medication. there is so much more to learn. i, as a future nurse, would never delegate medication administration to a person who has had 24 hours of training. plus, if they make a medication error, it is my license. i cannot take the risk of supervising these aides. this is unacceptable! we are taught in nursing school, to never administer a medication drawn up by another registered nurse or you could lose your license. i am not just passing medications and neither should a medication aide. let me say, that medication aides are not the answer to the impending nursing shortage. the answer to the nursing shortage is money and resources for educational facilities and nurse educators. solving the nursing shortage would put an end to this potential unsafe practice and provide the care our clients are entitled to and deserve. medication administration is so much more involved than just giving a person a pill. our primary function should be patient safety and medication aides do not ensure patient safety. there are still too many unanswered questions regarding this program. how will problems be identified if this program takes off? would a charge nurse, nurse supervisor or physician take the responsibility of these aides administering medications under their supervision? medication aides pose a constant and direct safety threat to the nursing population. i do not support the administration of medications by medication aides in any setting. i urge each of you to really research this. do not just talk'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">just talk to doctors or facilities. i encourage each of you to go out and talk to nurses in all healthcare settings. after all, they are the profession most affected by this proposed legislation. if this passes, i hope there are many other written stipulations prior to implementation of this program. patient safety should always be our main focus! there are over one million medication errors in the u.s. that are documented by medical professionals. these errors are made from professionals with many hours of schooling. do our patient's mean so little to our society, that we can subject them to the lesser trained? how many patients in that time frame will be injured or die before our eyes are opened? if this answer is even "one" that is too many. let me ask you, "would you want a person to take a 3 day course to give you, your child or one of your loved one's medication? i have had 5 general replies to my letter from our legislators thanking me for my letter. plus, two sincere replies, whom i believe actually took the time to read my letter. it is a sad day when we, the taxpayers, are not given the opportunity to decide what is best for ourselves and our loved ones. some say to give up, but i say to go forward. there will come a day soon when the general public will have a chance to speak regarding this subject. until that time, i encourage each of you to continue to write your legislators and your local newspapers. ask your neighbors have they heard about this legislation? tell this story and pass the word. the general public has the right to know.

Check out website: http://home.earthlink.net/~rnrally05/. Lots of good info about med aides.

I am sorry if you think I stepped over the line. This is an improtant issue that is not being discussed in NC. This is kinda being swept under the rug so to speak. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated especially if I am out of line. Thank you.

That is just the point. They are not and we as nurses are! They are performing a task with only 24 hours of training. How much training as a nurse did you get? I sure hope it was more than 24 hours.

I am sorry if I gave you that impression. No I am furious at the whole aspect of all of it. I think it is a disgrace to a trusting profession. It is not a solution to the nursing shortage in North Carolina either.

On March 17th, House Bill 783 and Senate Bill 662 will be introduced for Medication Administration/Unlicensed Personnel. This will be a 24 hour class so these people can pass meds under the supervision of a licensed nurse. Please write your house and senate members http://[email protected] If we don't act, this will pass and we will be responsible for them. Thank you.

Let's hear your side of this. Do you feel safe in the administration of meds? If you were not able to work along side that nurse, how do you think you would feel? What is your scope of practice? Do you feel 24 hours is sufficient training?

That's just it, a medication aide DOES NOT need to know the consequences of the drugs they administer because that is the nurses responsibility. The med aides ONLY responsibility is to ADMINISTER the drugs. There is a limit on some drugs. SCARY for the RN.

I hate to tell you but the state of Ohio is looking into this. They are in the planning stages and it really looks like it is going to pass sometime in the future from my research. I just spoke to the people on Thursday. Ohio needs to start checking into this. Go to website: http://www.odonaltc.org/pages/bits_pieces.asp As of December 2004, this shows it is under consideration and it is being backed by the Ohio Directors of Nursing Administration in Long Term Care. Long term care is pushing for it in my state of NC. In July 2004 a pilot program proposal was issued. I called Pete Van Runkle that is mentioned in the article and he passed my call along to some one else. I am sorry but I do not remember her name. She really did not like my questions to her and knew I would not call her again. Hope this helps. Help me know if you need anything else. Spread the word!!!

THank you for your honesty. Good luck in puursuing your BSN. We need good nurses.

Good for you!!!

I agree with you 100%. I keep a drug book with me and we have them on the floor to refer to if needed. Drugs change so rapidly. Let me say, that your rant is justified. Keep in mind, that the RN is always ultimately responsible for the delegation to that med aide. The med aide ONLY gives the med. The nurse is responsible for the side effects and follow up, etc.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I would like to clarify one thing. The RN is responsible for the delegation of med administration to the Med Aide. The only thing that med aides does is give the med. The nurse is responsible for review and follow up of the labs, side effects, and response of patient to the meds, etc. The RN is responsible for teaching the med aide about the med and questioning said person to make sure the RN is comfortable with this person fulfilling this task. If the RN is not comfortable, then don't delegate. My question is: Who would want to delegate this responsibility? These people are only listed in a registry. Are there problems with med errors? What are done to these people when an error occurs? How much drug diversion is there? There are just to many unanswered questions. My biggest question is: HOW DID THESE PEOPLE EVER GET HIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE? What is really scary is legislation has been passed in 29 other states, with many, I am afraid, to follow. Yes, this is a real scary thing. However, we as nurses and nursing students need to stand together as ONE VOICE to fight this. With the right stipulations and credentials, med aides might could be a good thing in some areas, and that is a BIG maybe. However, I feel that if the states and federal government contributed more money for educational facilities and nurse educators, a nursing shortage would not exist. I know 1,000's are being turned away yearly because there just simply are not enough slots. NURSES WE MUST BECOME ONE VOICE ON THIS ISSUE! NAD OTHER ISSUES THAT INVOLVE OUR FUTURE AND ESPECIALLY ONE'S THAT COULD HAVE OUTCOMES THAT AFFECT OUR FAMILIES BECAUSE WE CAN LOSE OUR JOBS OVER THIS!

Hi. I am new to the post. Very shortly a bill will be presented to our legislation on Medication Aides for my state. I am looking for some feedback regarding these aides. I know other programs have been implemented in many other states. How is it working? What are the current problems? Where can I go to find out more information? In my state they will be mandatory in non-health focused care settings such as: schools, prison, assisted living, daycares, and group homes. The health focused areas are: long term care facilities, rehab centers, home health, hospice, public health depts., clinics, and acute care settings. However, some say it optional for health care facilities. The training is 24 hours. I feel this is very dangerous. It is being implemented to help alleviate some of the nursing shortage we will experience in the near future. Plus, a lot of these med aides already work in some of these facilities and there has never been any formal training. How they were hired is beyond me, but now there is a need to train these individuals. The only requirement to date is: 21 years old and a high school graduate. No prior medical experience. Scary!!! I am looking for information on how programs of this type are working in other areas? Any problems experienced with the program? Is there an increase in med errors? Where I can go to gather more information?

HI. I am new. I am a nursing student scheduled to graduate in May. My state is proposing legislation soon regarding Medication Aides. I am very leary of the wording of the proposal because it states that these aides are mandatory in non-healthcare facilities such as: daycares, prisons, schools, group homes, and long term care facilities. However, it is optional for other healthcare facilities such as acute care facilities. I know programs such as this has passed in over half of the states. Does anyone have any imput? How is it working? Has there been any problems? Are med errors increasing? It really bothers me because these people have no prior medical experience and will have 24 hours of training. The RN will delegate to them. This is real scary. This program came about in our state because these med aides were already working in some of these facilities and had no formal training. From what I understand, this is suppose to help alleviate the nursing shortage for our state. I am looking for help, please. I would love your imput and any suggestions.