TopSecret

"You've seen how much sympathy you got here, right? Well, that is the culture of medicine, and the culture of traditionally woman's occupations." ^^^^You nailed that one. It's an artifact of people in lesser positions in life; and, that does tend to be the case in many traditionally female professions. Women PhD professors do not act this way, but they're not in the typically down-trodden jobs by virtue of their educations/positions "Apparently not. My instructors do not behave the way you are saying yours do. Clumping all nurse educators into the same group as "unprofessional and uneducated" is at best strange and at worse vindictive. I'm sorry you are having the problems you say you are having, even if to the rest of us they don't seem like problems at all. Sounds like nursing school isn't for you, and in turn neither is nursing. Good luck on your future endevors." ^^^^ Get your panties out of the knot. You'd go much further in life to emulate those of us who are well-educated rather than sitting there mired in resentment. Always remember this too: your resentment won't make my education or position in life disappear - you would be much better off directing your energies at something constructive in your OWN life. You remind of exactly the people who fall for this class envy business the poiliticians are always trying to promote. The analogy is: if the "evil" rich become poor, it won't make YOU any richer. Likewise, with your resentment in other areas - it won't improve YOUR life. Re the education: Quite frankly, a BSN isn't really enough to be teaching. An MSN falls somewhat short too. They need to raise the caliber of these programs. Don't be resentful of that suggestion; afterall, as the caliber is raised, you, too, benefit. Perhaps you're unknowingly accepting mediocrity in your proogram - I strongly suspect that is the case.

I'm getting the feeling some of the posters are not used to standing up for their rights and somehow perceive what some instructor who is acting unprofessionally says is gospel. Also regarding their educations, come on let's stop tip-toeing around it: some of these instructors are barely educated - that's probably part of the problem - they're insecure about their own educations. This much I know, the more people have going for them, the less they need to act the way these instructors are acting. They smack of insecurity, incompetence, and unprofessional behavior. They're only managing to make themselves look even worse as they pull this type of thing. The problem is if you're stuck working with these types or stuck with them as instructors, you don't want to inflame them unnecessarily, so that's why I was asking for advice. Anyway, time for some of you to stop taking this kind of behavior. This also is part of the reason it continues. People are too afraid to stand up to these incompetents. Remember, you are paying these people for a service and you expect to get the goods delivered in a reasonable, professional manner. In addition, you also expect these people to know the academic parts of the subjects they're teaching. Some of the instructors obviously also don't know the material as well as they should - and they seem defensive if questioned. They also have no legal right to discriminate. Also, why is it people are not outraged at the unprofessional flirting by the INSTRUCTORS. That is a potential lawsuit - big time. All legalities aside, it is beyond unprofessional for an instructor to sit there flirting with students. I'm still scraping my jaw off the ground. Time to send the instructors to sexual harassment classes as well to an MD specializing in psychiatry. It is 100% INAPPROPRIATE. Are we on the same planet here?

OP, What you're seeing is a result of people who don't have a lot on the ball and who are petty and unprofessional. In most careers, you won't encounter that kind of behavior except from the oddball character. There seems to be something about people who get into nursing in general. It tends attract a certain percentage of either soccer mom keep-up-with-the-Joneses types, crusty old types, or types who are still stuck in the high school mentality. Not sure why that is, but it's definitely there in nursing. It's very common with instructors too. Extremely unprofessional - just not much on the ball and their insecurities show. That said, as a nurse, you're stuck working with these characters, so you don't want them to derail your career, so you have to find ways around it. Therein, lies the difficulty for most people. This it completely non-PC, but I think the real truth is you're dealing with a bunch of gossipy hens who can't control their emotions - whether male or female actually - a lot aren't exactly people with a ton on the ball in the first place so they are resentful of anyone else who has a lot going for them.

i'm not insecure about my age. however, it is very noticeable that there is a definite discrepancy in the way instructors are treating students and it appears to be age-related and also gender-related. i didn't go into this program with any preconceived notions of any such thing occurring. in addition, i have taken plenty of courses throughout my life at varying ages and i've never encountered anything like this - most professors are usually just matter-of-fact and professional - with no noticeable difference in the way students are treated irrespective of age, gender, socioeconomic background, race, etcetera. that's why it sticks out so blatantly. it is highly unusual relative to a normal classroom situation. in general, except for this program, the professors i've encountered have always been extremely professional and very neutral with no emotion involved. they were full phd's though, so i find myself wondering if it's partly due to the fact the instructors in this program are mostly bsn's or msn's who have not been continuously in a classroom setting since their college days as most full phd professors have at most universities. i've also noticed the actual lectures seem lacking relative to the level of lectures one usually gets in most phd-run classrooms. a lot of the instructors in this program are out working as nurses at hospitals and similar and are doing this as adjuncts to supplement their incomes with many years between the time they graduated and the time they began working as instructors. so i'm seeing people who really don't know as much as a phd would know academically, plus they don't have the advantage of a continuous academic setting from the time they graduate, so it all comes together in a fairly ad hoc and unprofessional manner. in addition, these particular instructors cannot seem to keep their own emotions out of the classroom. the flirting, for example, underscores that - as do any kind of discrepancies in the way students are treated. you just do not see that with phd level professors of either gender, any age, or any race. it literally seems like i'm in an emotion-driven hen or rooster house with a bunch of unprofessional instructors who aren't particularly knowledgeable in their subject areas either (except for one). in a nutshell, i'm pretty well dealing with very unprofessional behavior, but i don't want to rock boats especially since some of these people out in the traditional working world too. on the other hand, if they push it to the point where i have nothing to lose anyway, i'll probably end up filing some complaints (if there's nothing left to lose, no reason not to). as i said, however, i would prefer it doesn't get that point. that's precisely what i want to avert in advance.

This is not the situation.

btw, to those posting advice in general, i definitely appreciate the advice, but try not to get caught up in feelings of resentment or in making assumptions. most posters aren't doing that, but a few are and the overall effect is to obscure useful advice. i'm looking for matter-of-fact, emotion-free advice if possible. regarding the legalities: i've actually spoken to a family member who is a labor attorney, and although this isn't an employment situation, a lot of the laws apply. basically, he told me to keep recording for now. vvv

Thanks for the advice so far. I do want to clarify that I absolutely do not display any sort of "superior" attitude in class. To reiterate, I am a straight A student in the nursing classes too (very high A's at that), so it's not as though I'm goofing around. I am entitled both morally and legally to at least the same treatment as other students are getting. I should also make clear from a legal standpoint, my attitude is completely irrelevant. For example, even if I decided to display a "superior" attitude, there is nothing illegal about that on my part. It is, however, breaking federal law on their parts to discriminate based on gender, age, and also the sexual harassment of the younger male. An aside: someone brought up yet another gripe regarding big mouths who "azz lick" and try to impress with calling out answers. That's going on in these classes too, and the people who are doing it are not only getting away with it but the instructors are actually encouraging the big mouths. I am definitely not one of those types - the big mouths absolutely get on my nerves - even more so with these other things occurring too. If anything, I may have been too humble in class. Even in that event, there is nothing illegal about me being too humble in class. Basically, I sit there fairly quietly other than having asked legitimate questions in the first couple of weeks. Now, I simply do not ask questions. That brings up yet another aspect: I'm not getting what I paid for either insofar as instruction is concerned. Back to othe original point: I'm basically really asking if there is a good way to stop it without resorting to legal action. I'm not really seeking advice regarding how to simply "put up" with it to get through the program. It needs to be curtailed on their parts - period. As I said, these people are flat out breaking federal law regarding age & gender discrimination (and stupid enough to do it while lectures are being recorded) as well as opening themselves up to sexual harassment charges should the younger male ever become annoyed. At this point, I don't want to find myself marching into anyone's office and overtly threatening legal action, yet I will not be subjected to this kind of illegal behavior. The real question is how to curtail it without resorting to lawyers and the like, yet not compromising my own standards by simply "putting up" with it?

This is gonna be long... I'm in my first semester of an RN program at an older age. I was eagerly looking forward to it until I actually got into it and found that I don't seem to be getting the respect I think I deserve. Let me preface this by saying I'm in no way a prima donna type, but I am extremely accomplished, so would expect a certain amount of normal respect. I don't want to say too much and give away who I am, but I have a couple of undergrad degrees & a master's degree in very difficult subject areas. In addition, I come from a background full of people with doctorate degrees and other types of very decent accomplishments. When I first started the program, I was very quiet about my background although the instructors may have known (at least, about my education assuming they bothered to look). As I said, I'm not the ego-driven, braggart type. However, I'm wondering if I was too quiet since I seem to be getting bypassed for people in my class who have nowhere near on the ball what I have going for me. I'm actually starting to wonder whether maybe it's due to my age (in which case, I'd be pretty annoyed about any kind of age discrimination). Seems like either that or I've been too quiet about who and what I am - especially relative to some of my classmates who, although they have no previous degrees, are quite vocal about calling out answers trying to impress classmates & instructors. Btw, I do have straight A's so far in the program, so even if the other students didn't know that, the instructors do know. Yet, it seems I get no respect from the instructors - one in particular. Can't quite figure whether she's intimidated by me or what (I have more education than she does) - whatever it is, she has been rather rude from almost day 1. The first week or two in her class, I did ask questions and such - but she kept ignoring me and trying to shut me up. So I tried a different approach - just sat quietly asking no questions. Then I started getting annoyed that some of the class loudmouths were encouraged to get even louder by the instructors (especially this one). It's also to the point that she and one of the other instructors are actually flirty in class with one of the younger male students too. The male student seems OK but he's not a particularly good student - so I find myself sitting there thinking why are the intructors paying any attention to him at all. Well, I KNOW why - they're literally flirting with him as I said. Meanwhile, those of us who deserve to be recognized based on accomplishment take a 2nd seat to that. Smacks of not only unprofessionalism but also of gender and age bias. The instructor who flirts the most (gets all giggly and such around the male student, always calling on him, joking with him, and so on) is actually a great instructor (insofar as knowledge and teaching ability) and treats me well too, but I'm still somewhat shocked at her behavior in class. The rude instructor heaps attention on this (20-something) male student too (although she is old enough to be his mother and then some - she's older than me too and I'm 44 - guessing she's about 55 and the other instructor is probably late 30s to early 40s). What's even stranger yet, is, at times, these 2 get annoyed with the male student when he starts getting too rambunctious in class. Well, no kidding, they've been encouraging it, so of course he's going to get rambunctious. Even he seems confused - at times, he's really eating it up and then they pull the rug out from under him at other times, so he gets really quiet then. Adding to all of that, other students are starting to gossip about the male student being too loud in class now. Anyway, you get the idea: weird happenings in class with 2 out of my 3 instructors, classmates starting to flip out, and no respect from the rude instructor. I keep flipping in my mind between thinking they're complete idiots (the rude one especially) and just blowing it off, total shock other times, total irritation at other times (and on the verge of saying something I might regret), and at other times just thinking the whole program is totally unprofessional. The main thing I'm concerned with is that if these are the kind of people with whom I'll eventually be working, I'd better figure out a way to deal with them. I've thought about assertively approaching the rude instructor after class, but I really don't want to totally burn bridges (you never know who she knows - plus that also risks her rattling on to other instructors I may have in the next 3 blocks & I don't want to make my name "mud"). Besides, with such a wacky situation, not sure talking to anyone would accomplish much. On the other hand, I've been so irritated at times that I've muttered a couple of things under my breath that she probably heard. I've been thinking maybe it's better just to confront her assertively and professionally rather than risk my irritation coming out even more - but then I flip back to thinking I need to just keep my mouth shut due to the the burning bridges aspect. Then again, bridges may already be burned if the one heard my mutterings. Adding to all of this, I'm beginning to get very sheepish in class in response to all of this. Thinking this is going to be a long haul in the program if things are shaping up this way so early. As I said, my real bottom line is I don't want to burn bridges and screw up a new career before I even graduate. So, any advice on how to deal with the situation? Also, does anyone else think some of these nursing programs seem totally unprofessional?