CABRN55

I'm responding now with a mixture of scientific and anecdotal evidence to support my argument to wash BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER VOIDING. I've been an RN for 34+ years and seen a lot of changes in health care, the biggest thing I'd say has been the increase in antibiotic resistant microbial infectious diseases. A few years ago, I had surgery myself and was very careful about being discharged ASAP and while an inpatient I did as much of my own care as possible, thinking that it would reduce my chances of infection by reducing my exposure to other possible carriers of infection. What I didn't consider, was that I myself was a possible major source of posssible contamination, since I was a health care provider and health care providers are many times carriers themselves of MRSA and VRE, but have no outward signs unless they are immunosuppressed or otherwise self-innoculate, such as a post operative patient, such as myself. I developed a massive UTI, that was positive for MRSA. Unless I was exposed during OR, only I could have exposed myself. I dc'd my own foley the 1st day post op. And I took care of my supra pubic cath site and dc'd it myself after it became infected. It took 6 weeks of tx to eradicate the infection. You'd better believe I now ALWAYS WASH MY HANDS BEFORE and AFTER voiding or doing anything to myself that involves a wound, or an orifice!

To Bedpan76, just knowing there are fellow nurses out there who are saying prayers for me and care make a world of difference. As someone who has been carrying this monkey on my back my entire life I know it is the helplessness/hopelessness that comes with chronic depression that is the greatest demon I have to overcome and to do that I have to use my mind to think this out. It helps to have those little "hand ups" like you have just given me to help me use my cognitive skills to get through this and work my way back to mental health. Thank you. You have helped in more ways than you can ever know. You said all the right things in just the right way. Thanks again. I think I can go to sleep now. CAB

As with so many other things, it's not just the verbage, it's the mental picture that is the problem that lies at the core. We have finally dealt with alcoholism (I think mainly because it's considered a "man's disease"), depression (most people have some understanding that it's due to a brain chemistry disfunction & most people can identify with sadness in some empathetic way), but when we start to talk about bipolar disorder or I'm not going to include PTSD & even battered spouse syndrome, forget it. No one even wants to make that mental picture, much less have to deal with the issues that come with it. Even if the solution is the easiest and most cost effective for the employer, society at large and is the kindest and safest for the sufferer. It's just too damnably ugly to think about, much less try to understand or help with. It's so much easier and soothing for those on the outside to just ignore or blame the sufferer and push her/him out to fend for herself without help. I've written before as a Type II bipolar sufferer with PTSD and generalized anxiety disorder how I was able to work successfully for 32 years before I was "outed" by someone in my family and my career as a critical care RN came to a screeching halt within 2 years by the inuendoes of supervisors and coworkers who began to suspect and second guess my motives and the causes of every mistake I made from there on that had never been an issue before for me or any other RN in my position. How I finally after 2 years and 4 different jobs where I was subjected to the most humiliating pressures jobwise (not clinically, but from an a management/administrative type) I was finally forced to go on social security because of the mental stress of dealing with those pressures were was more than I could face along with the stress of the clinical work itself and home pressures, too. What I didn't mention was the home pressures were and how my now "disability" would cause those pressure to increase exponentially into a "battered wife syndrome" situation because I could no longer provide the income needed. Now I'm in a terrible situation where I'm in a fix. I'm trapped in a world where I can no longer work in a profession where I can provide an income in which I can care for myself properly and because I am a "battered wife" and I have a documented "mental illness" I find myself unwanted anywhere except for a bare minimum of time with complete strangers. Family, long time friends, and neighbors, all of whom I have willingly and happily helped out for extended periods of time, raising their children, loaning them cars and letting them live rent free in my home for months at a time. Even paying rent and utilities for them for months while they got on their feet. These same people now can't be bothered with me. I need a hand up. Much of why I am in the shape I'm in is because I've have held up the stresses of so many others until they were strong enough to bear the burden for themselves. I believe I'm still capable of this myself if only I had a hand up to help me now. I've been reaching out and asking for months. First locally, then outside my area to everyone I've ever known. At first, I get a warm reception, but as soon as the words bipolar or battered wife enter the conversation as they eventually must for I have to honest to ask for this kind of help, the dialogue quickly grows icey. And within minutes I will hear, "I'm sorry, I just can't get involved.", "I have my own life to be concerned about.", "I'm afraid of what might happen around my children." (I particularly like that one, since it's usually from someone whose children were left in my care for months or even years). Since December of 2008, I have gone from wearing a size 18 to wearing a size 6 to 8. I have no idea how much weight I have lost and I am happy I've lost weight, but I don't think this kind of weight loss is healthy. I can't remember when I last slept a full night's sleep. I don't believe I am capable of working at this point and I'm not even sure if this goes on much longer if I will even live much longer. I am trying mightily to live. I see my therapist and psychiatrist and I take my meds as I should. We are working diligently to try to make the necessary adjustments to my regimen, but nothing is working. How does one live when you have lost everything and just about everyone that has made life worthwhile? And everytime you think you've found something new to focus on, you find it never was real? All because of a few words. Bipolar, Battered, mental illness? Words, as lethal as bullets. Use care, caution, never believe for a second that bias doesn't exist or that you can fight it by yourself. Or that you are such a good nurse that they will see past those little words. They don't care how good you are. Think about it. Do you make that much more money than a new graduate? One with a similar job and education? I've never made more than about $10/hour more than a new graduate. After 34+ years and more expereince and in many cases more knowlege than the physicians I worked with. I was kicked to the curb with as much ceremony as a dumpster full of garbage is rolled to the curbside. Excuse the tone of this treatise. I'm not full of hope these days. Or words of encouragement. I'm in one of those stages of Kubler-Ross' death & dying, I suppose. Somewhere between anger and acceptance. Thanks for listening.

JT: This I know about because I've talked at great length with the attorney with the state's board of nursing in my home state and this is what he (the attorney) says Federal Law states plainly concerning your very situation. The American's with Disabilities Act says that a school or potential employer may not inquire about any illness or chronic disorder you might have or they might suspect you to have, but you must disclose it IF: the employer will have to make significant modification to the job description or the physical surroundings or environment for you to provide the services needed OR YOUR CONDITION is such that it will severely cut into the time you will be able to provide such services. Now all that really means is: can you do the job and will you be reliable? Is your handicap/illness such that there will such physical modifications needed that it will put undo hardship on a potential employer that it is just too much to expect an employer to reasonably accomodate given the job? In your case, most likely the answer is no to each question. If you can finish nursing school and pass your boards, stay on your meds and continue seeing your doctor, then you should reasonably be able to work successfully without any problem. The problem here is how much do you reveal in your interview for a job? My answer is as little as possible. In most interviews, it is a game of cat and mouse. Each side is looking to find out what each sides' strengths are but mainly what their weakness are especially in the first interview. This isn't the best time to give away anything but your best side. However, it is the perfect time to ask for and insist on a full job description of the job you are applying for. Most reputable employers have a written description of the job that you are applying for. Get one or two if possible and make a copy for your doctor. Have him read it and write a letter for your files, documenting that he believes you are competent to work for this position with his name and date on it. File this with the job description with his initials and have him date it. Keep it as long as you are employed. And I do mean as long as you are employed after you have been diagnosed. Also keep documentation of your ongoing treatment for your disease. Dr appointments, medications taken, when dosages are changed, etc. You don't have to be specific as to what is going on personally, just that you are consistently being treated by your physician from now on. Periodically, like once a year, have him review your work situation and give you the okay to continue, about the same time as your yearly review is usely a good time and you can put that with your annual work review. As far as your meds. Most employers, they usually use an outside company to do their drug screens. It saves them from having to defend themselves from lawsuits by persons who are disqualified and yell foul. That way the employer can say that they had no way to know what it would be. And they don't. Someone from the company calls you and asks you what you take. You answer truthfully as to who your doctor is and his address and phone number and occasionally they will ask you why, but not often. Sometimes they will ask you where you have it filled. Again you give them the correct information there too. That is it. If it all matches you are home free. You have no idea how many people out there are taking antidepressants, diazepines and the like....pain meds, you name it, JT. This country is so pill crazy it is unbelievable! And the world wants to pick on us!!!! Because we admit we have a problem? That's what is so crazy, it isn't us! So calm down and just take care of yourself and come back here anytime, we are here for you anytime, OK? This site has been a blessing for me, I have been a nurse for 34+ years and felt so alone until I found the wonderful sister & brother nurses here I could come to for love and support after going through this journey alone for 40 years alone. You aren't alone anymore. We are all here for you. We will stand with you and we know you can do it!

I believe I may have said this before in the post that was lost, but it boils down to our profession still having the attitude of the general public. The same attitude that leads to us "eating our own young". If we are going to going to disqualify a disorder that may impair any of us then we must disqualify all disorders that might impair any of us. That means hypertension, glaucoma, diabetes, arthritis, essential tremor, grief, personal problems, etc. Most any life situation that befalls us throughout life can disable us at anytime for a substantial part of our working life. What sets those of us who have the strength and courage to admit we have a mental health disorder and seek help is that we have admitted and have gone for help to cope and want to be as strong and capable as possible, not as secretive nor use it as a crutch to get out being responsible for our responsibilities. We want help to be as good a providers of care as we can be. We realize that sometimes others can see subtle changes before we might notice them. Can you understand how much courage it takes to ask someone else to tell you "if you notice anything you see amiss, would you please mention it to me? I promise you it won't offend me, you will be doing a favor not only to me, but to everone else. I will promise you. If you are mistaken. I won't be upset. I will always thank you for your concern and consider you my best of friends. The worst thing would be, would be if no one said anything and I got out of control and something happened to one of my patients. That would the worst. I don't think I could ever forgive myself. With your help. I don't think that would happen here. Thank you so much. I am so lucky to work with nurses like you." Now I haven't had to ask this very often in my 34+ years as a nurse in critical care. Maybe once or twice over that time and only when I was in crisis in my personal life at home and I have had nurses ask me the same when their circumstances at home were similar to mine when they didn't have a mental illness diagnosis that was like mine, but were so distracted by their problems at home they hardly could concentrate at work and feared they would make a mistake that might injure their patient and they just needed the help of their fellow nurses and we were all happy to help a fellow sister nurse in need. I never couched my desire with the caveat that my need was based in my need due to my mental illness because it's exacerbation was due to the personal strains due to my home condition as were those of my fellow nurses so I felt no need to explain any further, it wasn't until my eldest son was incarcerated due to selling drugs and went to prison along with my deteriorating marriage that my psychiatrist felt that my meds and psychotherapy wasn't taking care of my Type II Bipolar depression that was worsening and felt I needed a round of ECT after 22 years of good control to make my brain more receptive to the meds that I had to reveal to my employer of 16 years of my underlying disease that I would need 3 weeks of FMLA for this procedure (2 weeks for the procedure, 3 X a week and one week to recover my short term memory) and then I would be able to return. My supervisor was very supportive, and I had no reason to feel that there would be any problems after I returned to work. I had a spotless record there and at my former employer, where I had been employed for 17 years, also with a spotless record and many accomplishments of note. I come from a small rural state, and while I have what one might think as something less than a highly educated background, I have a large number of college hours in many science subjects (160+) and had once been accept in medical school, a very high IQ, I have taught as adjunct faculty in a local university, been nationally certified in several subspecialties, and been very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to work in and with history making doctors and procedures (high risk OB/fetoscopy, heart transplants after the moratorium was lifted in 1981 in Houston and the real first artificial heart in 1982 even though it wasn't recognized because the FDA didn't approve it.)After my return, from FMLA, I noted a change. Not from my coworkers or the docs. Although there were questions, everyone seemed to be relieved to see that I was my same old self. Except that I seemed happier and I openly shared what I now knew about ECT and they were interested in knowing it wasn't at all like they had remembered being taught or seen as I had so long ago. I spoke with the anesthesiologists and we arranged to give a short seminar during our monthly staff meeting in PACU where I worked. At the time, we didn't do these procedures in the hospitals, but that would soon change and it became so handy to have me around for pre-procedure teaching....and post procedure reassurance. What I didn't notice....my director and the administration. Now, I have been in healthcare for 40+ years AND am married to a hospital administrator. I understand the tightrope these guys walk between providing care and making enough money to provide care. (these are hospitals of a not-for-profit system). BUT, my job is to advocate and provide the best care for my patients. Considering when I became a nurse and the fact I could have gone to medical school instead, I'd say I didn't get into nursing for the fame and the money....when I graduated nursing school in 1977 I made $4.54/hr and the most I have ever made in a single year working full time is $58,000. I have worked the majority of my career in PACU, where I have worked "mandatory" overtime and taken call every week and every weekend. Since my husband is a hospital administrator, he is on call every day, 24 hrs and we haven't had a vacation for the last 10 or so years, just a day or two here and there and usually he has to go in to work at least once or twice each time unless we actually go out of town and still they call him. I think I have a right to draw the line in the sand at some point on how much I will compromise my standards of care vs length of stay. When a patient is unable to maintain their airway, I don't care what hospital protocol says about when a patient can be discharged to the unit or home, they aren't going anywhere, they are going to stay right there in PACU because they don't meet the Aldrete score for discharge. I don't give a damn who says they are ready I have eyes and I know if a patient is safe to be alone or not for any time at all and when they are not, no one especially someone without any bedside clinical skills is going to tell me any different and I will not leave the patient no matter what I'm told. The law is on my side. It's called patient abandonment and I've dared them to call the police to come and arrest me and they wouldn't. They just waited until the next day and told me not to come back and fired me for insubordination. But, I've tried everyother tact up to that and nothing else would work and I refused to have one of my patient's die like the other nurses in my unit and I was the only one. Now I am unemployable, and my reputation is that I am impossible to work with. I think that it stinks. It is like I either stand up for what I know is right and lose, or I cave in and feel like a whore. What a Catch 22. What would you have done? My last job, I was working for a hospice, and I was loving it. Until I was asked to commit Medicare Fraud. Now, I wouldn't do it, but I explained to my employer I didn't care what they did, just don't involve me, I didn't care what they or other nurses did, I just wanted to do my job. I knew I didn't have enough to do them any harm and I didn't want to know, I just wanted to work and do my job. I know that was a cop out on my part but I did want to work and I know the system stinks and I can't fix it by myself, just don't make me actively participate in it and I won't squawk.

I can't find my post anywhere. What do I do? Where do I look? I am getting frustrated. It is as if I just disappeared. Liddle Noodnik, you have been here a long time, could you help mw find my last post to you I made a couple of hours ago? It seems to have disappeared. It would be post #809 in this very thread: Re: nurses struggling with mental health disorders. CABRN55

I would like to ask a question here in this venue if I might. I recently was placed on disability for bipolar disorder type II (major depressive) with generalized anxiety disorder and PTSD. I was diagnosed in 1980 and successfully managed from then until 2003, when I had the first of several exacerbations of my comorbidities, all related to major stresses in my personal life. I am in active therapy, however, I am in something of a "Catch 22" situation. I am on disability and unable to work due to my mental health status, but, the income provided by my disability payments isn't nearly enough to live on. My personal situation is my major stress factor, but without additional income that working as an RN would provide, I am trapped in a very toxic environment for me psychologically. But, trying to find work while on disability is almost impossible. I am working on this right now with social security and my therapist, but this is slow work, I'm finding now. As unbelievable as it must sound, it was easier for me to get pronounced unfit to work than it is to reclaim a place back in the ranks of registered nursing. I find this extremely frustrating as I had an unblemished record up to 2008, even with the exacerbations I had rendered excellent care and had never had any complaints about my work performance or patient interactions. My final working problems stemmed more due to interactions with management and frustrations with managed care. At my final place of work, I did have difficulties in orienting due to delays in attention and memory that slowed my ability to learn the new computer documentation needed to adequately perform my tasks, and I was appropriately terminated. It was at this time, my psychiatrist suggested that I should seek disability due to the fact he felt I had finally become overwhelmed by the stresses of my personal life and that I would be no longer able to function in both worlds, private and professional. I have a new therapist now, and after a re=evaluation of things, we are beginning to believe that perhaps that the change made was a bit premature and not one that was in my long term interests. Change was needed, but we were a bit too hasty and maybe a bit lazy in our rush to quickly "fix" or bandaid what really needed a more final and long term solution. The underlying problem was still there, the personal problems. The roadblock to fixing that, my children, had already grown up and I was free to pursue a life without the underlying problem, a really bad marriage between two very nice people. An idea that in the past had been discarded defacto due to our mutual devotion to our children wasn't in fact an issue of great importance as it had been once. Now what we are working toward is a mutual break, amicable. My spouse is finally himself in therapy to prepare himself as well. But how do I get back into a profession that doesn't seem to want me back? I am willing to admit that my behavior was unseemly for the last couple of years. I was erratic and rude to supervisors and administrators. But I am still a very good clinical nurse. I believe I can behave again just professionally as I once did before. But, how do I get a chance to prove myself? Anyone have a clue? I'm not trying to rush this. I'm going to do what my therapist says and I will certainly clear this with my psychiatrist, too. I have always been a compliant patient and realize that success depends on my cooperation with and adherence to all the rules. Lives depend on my good judgement, and I must be truly fit to practice. But if and when I am, how do I go about getting my foot back in the door? Can anyone help me with this? Or am I just spinning my wheels?

Hey Laura, Sorry, I've been out of touch for the last couple of days, too. Things here have been wild and not quite fun. We are treading into some territory where I'm not real familiar and that's where it comes to dealing with nursing boards and allegations of wrongdoing. I'm going to pose a few questions here and see if we have any nurses with more experience than I who can help. One thing I do know is this, most nursing acts in most states are similar. That's why the majority of states are in what is known as "the compact" which means an RN licensed in one of the "Compact" states is licensed to practice in any other "compact" state. I believe there are 29 such states now and more are added every year or two nationwide in the US. My first question would be is: do you have liability insurance? If you have professional liability or malpractice insurance (whatever you want to call it) then your insurance carrier should provide you with an attorney for no charge to defend you. This dear nurses, is why we should all have our own private policies. Don't let anyone tell you that you don't need it. Employers will drop you like a hot frying pan if they can get away with it if they think they might be held liable for something you did. Especially if dropping you, ie, firing you, makes them look like they are doing society a big favor by holding the "offender's" feet to the fire. Tends to make them less likely to be sued. Contrary to popular belief, most people who sue are looking for JUSTICE, NOT MONEY. Corporations know this and will happily report nurses to a state board for punishment that they know aren't guilty of any gross misconduct, just to make sure that an unhappy family is appeased by the sense that justice has been done. They only sue for money when there is a need for continued care or the company is so big that they feel the only way to get the corporation's attention is to hit them hard where it hurts. Where it hurts for a corporation is in the pocketbook, since a corporation has no feelings only shareholders whose only concern is return on investment. So that would be my first question: What are your options for an attorney? Do you have professional liability/malpractice insurance? Second: Just what again have you been accused of and how serious is this violation? What is their evidence and what is it that you have in the way of refuting evidence or witnesses? If you have witnesses, can you depend on them to show up for your hearing? If not, will the board accept a deposition or something of that sort that you and a lawyer and the state board's lawyer could set up for your witnesses convenience so you can use their testimony if needed. I would think that this would be something that you would need to hurry and get onto if say you needed testimony of say a family member or a past co worker that it might be likely possible as the hearing draws nearer might be coerced into perjury due to fear of losing their job or pressure from within the plaintiff family--I would think it would be analogous to striking while the fire is hot, don't wait until it cools off to much, now is the time while there is still some passion behind the loss of a friend. Third What do you think is the motive behind this reporting to the board of nursing? Was this a mandatory? (A med being given without an order?) Or a oopys? (Forgetting to sign/chart a med given or misssing a dose?) Was a patient harmed? Was there imminent harm? Or is this just a CYA (cover your ass) for the employer? Or even a PO'd (pissed off)/incompetent supervisor/boss situation? If so, can you prove you didn't harm or cause imminent harm? Or that the employer has widely bad practices in place? :uhoh3: Whatever it is now that you have a date and you are still in the state, I'd use this time to find out as much as I could and collect as much evidence and witness statements as possible, if permissible. Check with the board now and find out what is acceptable to the board at hearing now and start collecting as much as you can right away, since you will be moving out of state soon. What does everyone else think? Let's help Laura out with this right now. Laura, remember keep your head up. I'm here for you. Keep thinking positive and don't forget what we talked about the other day. Keep laughing! Don't ever stop laughing! :lol2: Call you soon, I promise!!!

That I couldn't say for sure. But it would give you some leeway. If you haven't been given formal termination notice, such in a formal review or interview say for an written warning with it clearly indicating that you are clearly being given notice that your performance is considered sub-par and therefore the employer is considering termination unless this corrected in a timely fashion by you and you have been notified and have indicated so by signing a written warning statement indicating you have been given this warning, then it would be hard for them to prove that you hadn't just resigned and then they had just made up the part about firing you. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS PROTECTED UNDER STATE STATUTES AND FEDERAL LAW. MOST EMPLOYERS NOW HAVE PRETTY TIGHT CODES ABOUT BEING PRETTY NEUTRAL ABOUT GIVING INFORMATION ABOUT THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TERMS OF THE DISSOLUTION OF EMPLOYMENT BETWEEN EMPLOYERS AND FORMER EMPLOYEES. However, this is where tact and discretion, work to your favor, because there is a sort of code that can and is used between human resource personnel that is targeted to weed out those, who are seen for whatever reason to be a source of problem. It can be for something as minor as just being a thorn in the side of someone who just doesn't like you because you are just you and you just rub them the wrong way (sometimes there are just people we don't like for reasons we can't articulate and we know it isn't reasonable but we don't), I know it's silly but sometimes people who have these feelings (and nurses' be honest we've all met someone in our life we just don't care for but there is no real good reason for and we know it, but that's how we feel) and who actually believe it is legitimate to act on them because they feel it therefore it is rational , yes , incredible, I know, but it's true, I've seen it myself and actually heard a supervisor say it to my face before when I asked if there was something I had done to make her so hostile toward me after I began working for her in a short term stay in a unit during my long career as a critical care nurse at a 19 year stay in a wonderful hospital I worked :banghead: I didn't know what I had done then, and I still don't except to say, I pretty much felt the same about her after I began working in the unit, except it didn't bother me as much as it bothered her so I found another unit to work and moved to it and found my niche and my favorite best friend for life:bdyhdclp: So it worked out for the best. That again was a spot where I just backed off when it became apparent that the mix wasn't right. I don't think it had anything to do with my bipolar disease just an inadequate social skill on my supervisor's part to deal with some kind of inner struggle to be able to get along with someone who for whatever reason, felt inappropriate revulsion toward another person and their reaction was not to seek out why, but to blame that person and punish him/her for that feeling evoked rather than face what evoked that feeling itself and what it was that triggered it in me that brought to mind for them? How could I help them work this through with them to help them? I would have been more than willing to have tried to help and gladly offered because after a while with growing animosity of an instructor student, I was ready to learn how to like this woman myself. If now wasn't a good time, then when when a good time? She declined, so I took my things and left like a lady. No hard feelings toward anyone, good wishes and good thought for everyone and even to her, for I thought, how sad, no lessons learned, no lessons taught. Nothing shed but a good learning moment lost......but what the heck. So Laura, again a long answer to your short one. We are snowed in here and I've been trapped in my home alone for nearly 72 hours with nothing to do and I have enjoyed our talks. You sound so good. You have warmed my heart.:redbeathe:redbeathe Congratulations, You Are My New Hero,:yeah: Cindy

It's been said that "discretion, is the better part of valor", but I much prefer our Arkansas saying "let sleeping dogs lie shut up". I've always taken this saying to heart when dealing with a no win situation. It is always better to take an upper road than it is to try to have the last word in an all ready closed one. If you have decided you don't want to work for these people, I would just go ahead and write a nice letter of resignation, date it, sign it and either mail it by registered or certified mail or hand deliver it to the mail room or the receptionist of your boss, but not 'in person'. :argue: You don't want any confrontation of any kind with this person if possible. This is not a winnable situation for you if they want to terminate you. Most states have laws that protect employers rights, not employees, to terminate employees for most any reason they wish except where YOU CAN PROVE Federal Law has been clearly violated concerning the Americans with Disabilities Act. I have a feeling that Sen McCain's state is probably just like mine where it is just about damn near impossible to prove that, and most employers will use other excuses for the reason your termination, even manufacturing nonexisting complaints or other factors. This is unfortunately true in most of the US. That's why there has been such a push in some states with large groups of nurses in large metropolitan areas to unionize, even to form a national nurses' union. The largest such movement is happening in California, with the California Nurses Association, forming it's first statewide union and then pushing to try to go national with it in recent years. But back to your question, whatever you decide, I would advise that you avoid confrontation at this point. It sounds as if you are right, YOU ARE working for a bunch of idiot, incompetent people who have no idea that mental illness is a disease just as diabetes or glaucoma. They would make some accommodation for someone with an amputation or diminished eyesight, but it's different for nurses. Somehow the rules for us are different than for others & that just isn't right. Now, don't lecture me about how we are different or we have to be more perfect than others. That doesn't pass the smell test and you all know that. If anything impairs us then all things that impair us should disallow us from participating in this profession. We don't get to pick and choose what disease we are born to inherit. Should I be denied my right to practice my profession because I happened to inherit the wrong genes from my parents? These genes that might make me also a Type I diabetic and if I choose not to be compliant with my treatment regimen would very likely put me at high risk of being in an impaired state while working? Is having Bipolar disorder so different? You get a doctor with a proper diagnosis, and with continued monitoring develop a treatment regimen and lifestyle and you are compliant with that. Of course with all diseases you will have times when your disease will have exacerbations, but as with all things human that is part and parcel of life. Laura, you should spend your time now, getting better and just forgetting those jerks, because that is just what they are: JERKS! YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!! HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND! WE AREN'T JUST TALKING ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS! NURSING DEMANDS MORE OF YOU THAN ANY OTHER PROFESSION IN THE US AND AFFORDS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF SUPPORT FOR ANY OF ITS MEMBERS WITH ANY DISABILITY THAN ANY OTHER PROFESSION! WHY DO WE LET THIS HAPPEN? WHY DO WE DO THIS TO OURSELVES?:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Actually, ECT is still used quite a bit. It is used in various inpatient & outpatient settings to treat intractable depression. It appears that it's value lies in making the brain neurotransmitter receptor centers more sensitive to pharmaceutical intervention, kind of akin to rebooting a computer, in a very crude sense, as no one really knows why this works. It just does. There are some side effects, slight short term memory deficits than may become worse with successive rounds of this therapy, headache, sleepiness, there seems to be little else except what would be expected in any other very short outpatient short case OR procedure.

Laura, No matter what happen to you in this job, remember what you bring to the world around you is of great value. I just met you and I know that. Don't let what happened to me color what is happening to you right now. I have made a lot of progress since I hit that bottom spot where you seem to feel you are falling toward right now. This is the time to reach out to others especially within this community of nurses who are like you and me and I keep seeing so many others which brings me so much hope for our future, Laura. Just think of it! Really, a letter from an old blue hair like me has brought the response like this! And us together! What a miracle! God is real! Laura, I'm crying as I type this, please don't give up. Not now. :redpinkhe If for no one else than for me, please I need to be needed. It's been a while for me to feel I've been a positive impact on others. You are still needed too, just like me. God has a plan for each of us. Sometimes we forget, but if we remain patient and compliant, always compliant, eventually He does answer. You just have to stay receptive and not pull back inside so much you can't reach out to find you way or find the helping hand that's here, right here to grasp. Laura, I'm here. Maybe, not privately. And perhaps that is best right now. I think we both know you are in a crisis. Please, Laura I beg you, get help now! Call your doctor and get a friend, someone to be with you, physically. NOW. For me. I'm worried. Cindy,:redbeathe:crying2:

My name is Cindy. I'm not sure how we can connect offsite. This is my first day on this website. But yes, I would like to connect to share with you and help anyway I can.

It is I that should thank you, Laura, You've made me feel much better, too. It's been a while and I'm working on getting back out in the workforce in another part of the state away from where I've b:yeah:een living for years and seeing if I can get back into the nursing workforce in a better and a little slower paced living atmosphere that I've had for the last 25 years of my life. It feels good to be able to help out. You know that's a lot of why many of us who have been nurses as long as I have got into this business is because it is a "feel good" profession that's why and I haven't had much opportunity to practice much of that since I was forced to retire a year ago and this is kind of like a "fix" for me, so I have to thank you, too. Actually, nursing has been as much a part of my cognitive therapy as anything else I did in my life, it was a positive thing I did everyday that I could use to build my self esteem when I was feeling down and struggling with self esteem issues as anyone with depression knows is a huge part of it. Unreasonable feeling of hopelessness and worthlessness. But when those feelings would start to come I would just make myself think about everything I had done that day or that week and I couldn't ignore what it was I had done regardless of outcome. I have a book at home that lists what each procedure and what each medication, each IV, how each vital sign, etc, benefits the patient, in almost every scenario, it took me year of jotting notes then rewriting in legible writing and organizing it into a form where I could find everything easily to refer to it, and I would use it frequently as a tool to sort of knock some sense into myself (into my head with it) using it when I would start feeling blue:uhoh3: It has always worked and of course, when patients or family says "thank you" that leaves me walking on air for days, just knowing you've made someone feel better always is the best medicine. I sure didn't become an RN to become rich and famous, HA! When I graduated, we were paid $4.50/hour, and I think I made a gross income of around $8800 year until 1980 or so before nurses salaries started to rise. Now if you really wanted to get me laughing I would start telling you about what being an RN was like when I first got into health care at 14 in 1969 as a CNA working after school and weekends. Boy, could I tell you some good ones! You just hang in there, sister! Keep looking for things to laugh about and things will be okay! Remember this monkey on your back is just that. It's a monkey that's all. You've got it on a leash, all you have to do is hang on and keep it tight and don't let go. It can be tamed. A you can even make it funny if you keep your wits about yourself. Just be careful and know all you can, work with someone who know how to work with that monkey as well as you do yourself. Then find people who won't be frightened of the monkey and the occasional time it misbehaves or acts as if it might, but don't try to force your "monkey" on everyone, be discerning who you introduce this little friend of yours who lives with you, that's all.

Absolutely, Laura, always follow what your instincts tell you especially about what your meds are. I mean, always take them as you should, BUT if you don't feel right on what you are taking or the dosage, then by all means you should tell your doctor exactly how you are feeling and WHAT YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BE TAKING WHETHER IT SHOULD BE ELEVATING OR LEVELING OR COMPLETELY CHANGING A MEDICATION. THIS IS A LIFELONG CONDITION and this is a condition where you and your doctor must work together as a TEAM. YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR ARE EQUAL PLAYERS in this endeavor which means you have as much or more say in this since your entire life rests in the outcome of this treatment plan. Your part is to comply completely with the plan and learn everything possible about your disorder. Your doctor's role is to help your formulate your treatment plan, implement it, monitor it and change it with your help and input. It will never be successful if it is all one sided. If your doctor insists on making all the decisions, I promise you are seeing the wrong doctor. If your doctor never argues with you then again, I say you are seeing the wrong doctor. My doctor and I have been together for 15 years now, I struggle to describe our relationship. I can't say we are friends, we aren't. Nor are we colleagues, no I am his patient, yet I have as much say in my treatment as he. We are collaborators of sorts I guess you might say. Not the same or quite equals , like comparing apples and oranges. But there is one thing we both know, we respect each other and nothing goes unless we both agree. Sometimes that takes some persuasion on one side or the other, but that's a good thing because it makes for a better patient AND a better doctor because we both are listening and learning.