lildiamond

Hi! I am a relatively new grad working on a Med/Surg floor. I am lucky in that I also have the chance to work on the OB floor and in ED. I love my job and my coworkers, however I do have a neuro disease. Thankfully (VERY thankfully!) it does not impact me at the present moment. However, I cannot see working the next 30 years in acute care physically. I have always been interested in Case Management and UR. I have worked in private practice for years prior to MedSurg, so I have some experience on that side. I will be pursing my MSN in either Case Management or Informatics soon. What are your recommendations for getting into a CM/ UR position? What certifications should I obtain? How many years on the floor are generally required? Would getting an MSN with a few years of floor experience enable me to be considered for CM/UR positions? Thanks a million!

"but the problem with the strays at shelters is that many of the cats are diseased, etc." Most of the cats euthanized at shelters do not have serious diseases that would alter anatomical structure, nor are there any feline diseases that pose a risk to student dissectors. Many cats have simple upper resp. diseases, but this would not pose an issue to using these cats as dissection subjects. I personally go out of my way to purchase makeup, household cleaning products, clothing, etc. that is cruelty free. It really is not that hard to do...In terms of the drug companies testing on animals, until the FDA realizes that many LD 50 tests are outdated and unnecessary, they will continue. But really, if we can do one small thing (lessening the amount of cats dissected) then this is better than doing nothing I feel. I also think that you said something very true, to choose emotional battles carefully. The problem is when people think something is wrong, they choose to go along even in the face of their better judgement. If you think something is amoral or out of line with your instincts, then DON'T DO IT. There is a term called "groupthink" that basically says that faulty decision making happens when members of a group (students, jurors, etc) don't rationally make their own decisions and when group members also feel the need to conform, even if they disagree with what the group thinks. I hope someday the need to kill animals for science wanes. There are better alternatives. "The only thing needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing." --Author: Edmund Burke

Actually I do think that it does matter (in the long run) if people "opt out". Indirectly, we are all responsible for how the animal died, as we are using it for dissection. If more students refused to do the dissection or if students chose classes that did not use cats, schools would be faced with having to make decisions. If only two people out of a class of 40 actually agreed to dissect the cat, schools would buy less cats to dissect. Over time, school programs would change... I work at an emergency and internal medicine vet hospital. I know FOR A FACT that vets CANNOT BY LAW (in CA) donate any euthanized cats to school programs. THis is against the law, and unless a vet is doing this illegally and packaging the cat himself (or herself), it is a lie the professor told you. Don't believe me? Please ask the professor or college to let you see documents shouwing which vet 'donated' the cats...My money is on the fact that this won't hold water... It is tempting to not think of how or why the cat on the table in front of you died. Many people go along every day and only think of what directly affects them. All I am trying to do is challenge people to think in a wider frame of reference. THe facts show that students do not learn anymore from dissecting a cat than from using a computer model or a human cadaver. In that respect, then I feel we should all care why and how this cat died.

Yeah the more I think about it, the more uspet I become. Cats cannot choose to give their lives for the education of future nurses. I have chosen to take Anatomy at a school that uses HUMAN cadavers. This college will be a longer drive for me, but I don't think that I can ethically dissect a cat that was killed for this purpose. It's too bad shelters don't turn over the euthanized strays..they have to be bled, then packed in formaldehyde...the shelters don't have the time or resouces to do this, sadly. Hence why companies exsist to provide cats to colleges. Hopefully, someday, this will not be the standard for Anatomy classes. I find it disheartning that some other people say to "buck up" and that as nurses we will see many sad and disturbing things. I could not disagree more. First off I think that as nurses we should seek to help those in less fortunate positions...what is more innocent than a cat killed for a HUMAN anatomy class?? I work at an animal hospital and see sad and disturbing things; it has NEVER gotten easier...and if it does, that is the day my compassion and empathy die... It's true that we will see many sad and disturbing things as nurses, but I know I won't ever see a person killed for medical school students to dissect! Life is sometimes very difficult and full of sorrow, but we should seek to lessen this as nurses, not contribute to it... Just a thought!

Thanks for the information. It's a difficult decision!! Regarding the opportunities for advancement with the Master's degree, what exactly would these positions be like? Thanks!!

I totally agree with this! I work in the veterinary field at the present moment. The cats that are used in anatomy classes are generally purchased form DEALERS who's business it is to provide cats for students to dissect. THey are killed and then put in formaldehyde immediately after death. I can say that I know of NO ANIMAL SHELTER that has facilites that do this in Orange COunty, CA. This is not always the case in every state perhaps, but most often, the cats on the table have been killed specifically for the purpose of dissection. I don't know where everyone lives, but at Santa Ana community college, they have a few Anatomy classes that only use cadavers. :) And rest assured, the person on the table being dissected willed their body to science! As future nurses, I feel we should stand up for this unnecessary abuse of animals. Further, we are HUMAN nurses, so really dissecting cats (yes I know their anatomy is very similar in respects) is outdated. Human nurses should dissect human cadavers! Just my thoughts .

Hello, I am wanting to go into the field of nursing. I believe it is a calling and really am excited for all the possibilites that nursing provides. My primary question is whether to go for my MSN (I have a BA in Speech Communication, so I'd be going into the entry-level MSN program) or go for the RN (Associates in Science). I know that there are many considerations- time (MSN would take me three years + one year to finish prereq's; the RN would be two years + one year prereq's). So the overall difference is one year...??? Of course finances are of a concern, but I could always take MORE loans out! I would like to know pay differences between nurses with a MSN degree vs. RN's, the differences in job positions, etc...Also would I be able to specialize as a Nurse Practioner in the MSN degree, or does the NP require even more schooling above the MSN degree? Sorry for rambling!! :nuke: Thanks!!!!!