DO_question

The concerns were chiefly that before 1976 CRNAs were getting a bachelor's degree... I have 5 years of clinical experience prior to my medical education and I can tell you it's worth something. It's made me a better student and a better provider than I would be otherwise, but it's no replacement for formal medical education. Nobody wants to squash you. CRNAs are rather obviously here to stay and I don't think sane persons want that to change. We take issue with claims of equivalency or that CRNAs should be practicing without supervising physicians. I presume you guys just think we twiddle thumbs for years more than you? Call it what you want, but you're practicing medicine without the support of a full medical education or a full residency training. Cool story. My undergrad used the same text for anatomy as one of my professors in medical school... Does that mean anything? No. What a ridiculous conclusion to think that reading the same textbook means you know a subject to the same depth... You guys start taking our board exams (both medical school and board certification exams) and we can talk equivalency. Little boy, The reason the ASA pushed "physician Anesthesiologist" is related to this discussion, CRNAs (or more accurately their lobbies) seem to be so insecure that they push to make themselves as indistinguishable from Anesthesiologists as possible in every way but the education and residency rigor.

CRNAs and AAs are actually far closer in education than a CRNA and MD/DO so really, nurse anesthetist is perfectly adequate and accurate description. You realize AAs were created in an era of concern specifically about CRNA educational quality right? The whole profession is meant to be a less egocentric alternative to CRNAs. I can see that you don't care for that.

From Websters definition of Anesthesiologist: "specifically: a physician specializing in anesthesiology" When anesthesia was dripping ether nurses lead the field. As developments in airway management, improved inhaled and intravenous anesthetics, paralytics, and monitoring were revised or invented by physicians it is clear that "historical precedent" very clearly identifies this as a medical specialty. Don't confuse legality with something being as it should be. In Oregon "naturopathic" doctors can be your primary care doc... We all know that's nonsense, but it's legal. A CRNA calling themselves an anesthesiologist is no different.

Anesthesiology is the study and practice of medicine as it pertains to anesthesia, analgesia, sedation, etc. In order to be any sort of anesthesiologist you'd need a medical degree of some sort, since medicine and nursing are distinct, a nursing degree would not suffice. It should be fraudulent whether you throw nurse in front of it or not.

I mean AAs were created to address the perceived lack of training for CRNAs of the day. Your friend is equal regardless of her nursing experience.

"The level of professional ignorance above is laughable." I attacked your lack of knowledge perceived from my perspective and knowledge base, not you as a person. If you don't like criticism of your views then don't make those statements.

Oh I for sure am. You compared DO physicians to PAs...

Lol you guys know DO=MD legally in the US right? The titles in every single sense, equal and the sole difference is an additional course DO students take on manual medicine right? You realize there's no specialty that DOs don't practice in right? You realize we take the same board exams right? The level of professional ignorance above is pretty laughable.

I'm not finding anything on the subject, care to link it? Added: I have however, found a paper espousing almost exactly what I've been told by every attending anesthesiologist I've discussed this with.

If CRNAs were referred to as "anesthesia nurses," all of this would be cleared up. Physicians have changed names mostly to differentiate themselves from nurses... which seem to keep wanting to blur the difference.

So your solution to a patient not being sure what an anesthetist is to appropriate a physician's title? I will say, the most important part of transparency there is that you identify that you work in anesthesia and that you're their nurse, so (legit no sarcasm) I can say the most important part is fine. I don't see why the ANAA wants to keep blurring lines with patients. Definition of anesthesiologist (taken from Webster's) : anesthetist specifically : a physician specializing in anesthesiology

Good to see your surgeons start the morning with such transparency...

To both the above, Exactly. The term "anesthesiologist," was termed due to the confusion (everyone went by anesthetist prior) and now you can see CRNAs pushing to use Anesthesiologist. I'll take your word on the copy right issue. Please walk in anywhere and state "I'm an anesthesiologist," and ask the surgeon, tech, other physicians, nurses etc whether they think you're a physician or a nurse...

There is no such thing as a "nurse anesthesiologist." Anesthetist is used generically everywhere else, but in the US the term "anesthesiologist," was created specifically to distinguish medical practitioners from nursing practitioners.

I haven't abandoned the post. I am learning a ton! I appreciate all the input guys, it really gives me more understanding and more importantly more things to research. Shared the post with the GF, so if she's got some questions I bet she will chime in at some point. Thank you all again!

Thank ya

So I've heard of several EDs steering away from providers that are not trained to treat Peds. Run into that much? Mostly a non-issue?

Thanks guys! She hasn't said, and she may not until she shadows, but what if she wanted to be in the ED? Still FNP?

By "the point," I suppose I meant that they're qualified to. I am curious to hear, but I'm betting in some institutions NPs interchange with residents and in others they run plans by the attending when they are unsure. Of course, my background is rather focused toward EM, so maybe it's different elsewhere?

I sure hope they can diagnose. That's the point I think. Or at least, that's how my grandmother practiced.

Thank ya!

I'm not sure how this is intrusive, I felt I was ignorant (relatively) and wanted to gain some knowledge. You'd think my interest would be seen as positive? I mean when she asks me, should I instead just respond based on my own experience? That said, this is the internet, I'm sure someone could assume I'm asking in place of her or in the stead of her finding her own answers, which would be less than positive. So I'm gathering it is not so much a decade + of nursing experience being necessary so much as a few years being beneficial. That's awesome. Don't NPs use NP preceptors?

ACNP-guy, That credentialing makes sense, same situation residents go through. So it's not a closed ICU? Hmmm I thought there would be a bigger market for acute care. Were your clinical rotations broken up between various ICUs or in a specific type (MICU, SICU, CVICU, etc)? How many hours did you do total? SpankedInPittsburgh, Thanks! She will do well in whatever she chooses. Good to hear a wide variety there.

Respectfully, I'm sure she will ask her own questions. This, as I stated, is to better educate me since she values my input (as I do her's). She's setting up a variety of shadowing experiences before committing to anything. I'm sure what she learns shadowing will be the info she needs, this is just me wanting to reduce my ignorance.

Juan, Can you talk to me more about what procedures you do in the ICU? How is the team dynamic in that ICU? Are there residents? There's variety in how I've seen NP/PA used in the ICU so I would love to see how you guys do it. Were you trained in these procedures during your training or only after? Guys, great info. Thank you again.