getmeoutofhere

Better to have fought and lost than to have never fought at all. Nurses in the Australian state of Victoria went on strike and delivered improvements both for themselves and their patients. Perhaps you can explain how, if patient care is being compromised just how you can stop or even reverse it?

No problems happy to share my experience and/or knowledge. Re the Conservatives, they know that "fear of the unknown" works for some, as well as underlying belief that the private sector is good, state bad. On the last point, as poorly paid public sector worker I cannot afford for my tax pounds to be wasted on the private sector who, in my opinion deliver poorer services than when the State delivers them.

Why don't you provide your qualifications and experience that allow you to doubt the content of the wiki links supplied. http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/index.htm http://www.nhs.uk/Pages/homepage.aspx If you have any queries, maybe you should do your own research as you seem to doubt my personal knowledge as a resident of the UK. Now that I am more awake, perhaps you can show us this link as I've checked and can only find the three relating to the NHS?

I don't have much time, so I'll address these two paragraphs, if you have answered these points in the rest of your post then accept my apologises. Which part of the wikipedia entries do you think inaccurate? As someone who lives in the UK (or England if that's easier for you to locate) I wouldn't have posted the links if I didn't think they were broadly accurate of the current stage of play over here. If you highlight your concerns I'll do my best to find alternative sources for? Would newspaper links like this be okay? http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/nhs

Howabout we get the terminology right for the systems used in Europe? We have two systems, the "Beveridge" system (loosely used to refer to tax based systems), and the "Bismarckian" which is based around a plethora of competing insurance organisations independent of health service suppliers. The Bismarckian generates more resources but the admin consumes more resources than the Beveridge model. It also said to deliver better results but our government disputes this? I would dispute the belief that the UK is a socialized system. FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_health_insurance As you'll read, people have a choice of going with private sector if they have insurance. Also, since day one of the NHS, the first port of call to access heathcare are GPs, doctors who are private sector contractors. And the foundation hospitals have,in theory, a degree of self-control that just wouldn't be possible in a truly socialised system. Hope this helps.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24652940-5017906,00.html

In theory but in practice you hear of the senior nurses being downgraded, especially since DoH fouled up on GP and consultant payrises Public symapthy doesn't pay the bills. Irish nurses are more than happy to give it up for a decent payrises and i'd be happy to have a payscale in line with teachers for starters! Avg. salary for nurses 25k, starting salary for teachers for 25k correct as of april 2008. We should learn form the unionised hospitals in the US, now that is one thing i'd happily import over!

Not sure our pay can be levelled to that, the RCN been campaigning for decent pay for four decades. Any analysis could say it's down to the gender make up, the no or effectively no strike clause it's has as well as other reasons. if we copied nurses in ireland, Finland, sweden or even australia we just may find our pay approaching that of teachers? We have healthcare that covers us from craddle to grave, covers us for acute and chronic diseases something the US should be able be able to deliver given it's spent per person. Sure would look for someone to explain how they don't manage to?

Really! most reports i read from americans about the us model make me glad that their an ocean separating me from it. if their is a god, thank you!

Really, my experience is that the private sector provides services that cost more and are poorer than when run by the State. And i cannot think of too many private sector healthcare providers who pay more than the nhs!

Well, reading another forum on healthcare, one of ther posters said that when she switched insurance companies when pregnant, the company refused to cover that costs as it was a pre-existing condition. wouldn't happen here in the uk!

Well here in the uk that major private sector companies have one thing in common, sack the little guy or reduce the terms and conditions they work under and then you discover that the CEO has seen a massive pay-rise. can you be sure it won't happen whichever sector you were in?

The best five healthcare systems in Europe could be said to be a mixture.

Can you explain how the current system which includes thousands looking for excuses to avoid paying out treatment going to be less than a uhc system? maybe you should demonstrate the administrative costs for the systems in europe as you'll find they are, in the main, cheaper!

Could someone explain what meant by "timed out", "deductible and copays?

Not sure I understand your point? If it's because your "schools of nursing" are oversubscripted then what has that got to do with a UHC system? Even in Canada they have to turn away suitable candidates from a number of schools. To me that screams out a problem with your universities than anything? Over here in the UK, many courses are underscripted, universities have been know to advertise vacancies in the final few weeks before the course is to run. The number of places is less then 2005, nevertheless the lack of appeal is more down to the competition to get a job, can take 8-12 mths so many newly qualified look to find work in the US, or Australia. Hope is that as many as 10,000 nurses will retire in 2010 so providing opportunities.

No socialism beats US healthcare every time. You may have more toys but what we do with ours deliver healthcare indices that beat the US in more areas. I pay into a pot rather than a insurance companies coffers, so I'll get a return on that investment whether I'm employed or not. Can any of your insurance companies able to make the same selling point? The state doesn't spend a fortuate trying to come up with a circumstance to say no, can any of your insurance companies make the same claim? The US spends more on healthcare and as a nation gets back less than many of us in the Europe and no matter how you conservatives try to spin things that's not going to change.

uhc also amplifies all the solutions. the first question asked of a patient isn't do you have insurance, it's what troubling you. prescriptions in the uk for many are something you have to pay a fixed fee for, more of than not higher than many otc would cost. it encourages healthcare according to your need, not income. they are building hospitals in india for the us health tourist, wonder why? we even get us citizens coming over here to steal healthcare, wonder why? ride a motorcycle your more likely to be seeing the police and the the courts. given the us has the highest number of obese individuals on the planet, i'll take our health promotion/education approach over walking away from the issue. i'm sure that happens in the us but not in the uk. we do have problems trying to deliver tailored healthcare to the populace as the issues in the poor north aren't the same as those found in the richer south. the individualised attempt causes problems for some,it's refered to as "postcode lottery".

The cost of UHC in the UK comes straight from the pot of taxes collected so it's linked directly to your income and how much you purchase of goods that have tax attached to them. Healthcare delayed beats healthcare denied. Insurance companies ONLY make money by saying no. So the insurance companies don't have a pre-existing condition clause that they won't cover, or a list of medical treatments they won't fund?

No it's not. BUPA is not part of the government and many employers subscribe to this organisation so its employees can get healthcare from them. The NHS also contracts in additional capacity from the private hospitals and healthcare providers we have here.

Don't believe CEOs anywhere, when it comes money or healthcare!

I don't know what been said in the thread but as someone who lives and works in a universal healthcare system I'd like to say a few things. 1) Everytime we have attempts to change things for the better, the conservatives come up with one or more kinds of scare stories to put people of. Here their track record when compared to history isn't very good. It's so good that they have had to embrace that which they used to oppose. 2) The USA last time I checked has 300K nurse vacancies, are they really going to cut pay, encourage you to leave, stay open and so invite the likelihood of increased ligation? 3) Last article I read had administration costs eating up 30% of the budget, any sensible UHC system will reduce this funding any increase in treatment. 4) We also do health promotion which I am told is not as extensive in the US as here. You have so much waste in your system which ANY competent manager would look at first. 5) Pay into a UHC system and you have it available whether your in work or unemployed. Pay into an insurance based one it's only available as long as you have the insurance, in the long run UHC will be cheaper. Last point which is un-connected with RN pay, if you copy the UK system then you deserve everything you get as the last survey placed at LEAST thirty versions better than it.