Jump to content

The Golden Ticket - Nurses pursue advanced degrees and prosper

News   (11,880 Views 47 Comments)
by DoGoodThenGo DoGoodThenGo (Member)

DoGoodThenGo works as a Entrepreneur - Business Owner.

40,152 Visitors; 4,111 Posts

advertisement

9/1/2010 2:00:00 AM by: Lanier Norville

494.jpg Nursing education advocates say all nurses should be prepared at the baccalaureate level. But one day, that "should" may become a "must"..........

http://www.mdpublishing.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=586

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PedsDrNurseTheo has 20 years experience and works as a Peds APRN.

1 Article; 6,080 Visitors; 150 Posts

Hm.

"Margaret Leonard, MS, RN-BC, FNP, senior vice president of clinical services at Hudson Health Plan in New York, supports a proposed state law that would require new nurses to obtain a bachelor’s degree in nursing within 10 years. “A nurse, to be truly effective, needs such skills as critical thinking, resource management and community health, which are imparted in a baccalaureate program,” says the recently elected member of the New York State Board of Nursing."

Right. Because ADN nurses and diploma nurses don't know how to critically think, manage resources, or do community health.

Bah.

One of the things I have learned in my BSN program (I'll be done this semester - Yay!) is how to critically read and review a research study - Joan Aiken's study on the efficacy and safety of BSN prepared nurses over ADN and diploma nurses - which much of this so called evidence is based upon - is a seriously flawed piece of research. But hey, it brings in revenue to schools and makes state BON's think they are doing something to advance the profession - so let's all jump on the wagon.

It's a tough tide to swim against, people. You may very well find yourselves in a position of needing to get the sheepskin to get or keep your jobs.

Buh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

eriksoln has 15 years experience as a BSN, RN and works as a Travel RN.

2 Articles; 19,457 Visitors; 2,636 Posts

I started an ADN to BSN program, but left after one semester to go into Travel Nursing. I must admit, the material we were covering was fluff and had no practical application in a clinical setting. Most of our classes turned into debates over nursing theory and how to advance the "profession". I can not for the life of me imagine how anyone, having gone to those classes, does anything any different from an ADN nurse. End result of paying 15K tuition and writing a lot of papers is...........you sound better at social gatherings if you need to debate........and that's it.

You hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that schools are the one's who stand to benefit from boosting the requirements to practice bedside nursing. They are, more than likely, the biggest proponents of such laws as needing to have a BSN within ten years to practice clinical nursing. Neither nurses nor patients will notice any difference in what takes place on the unit.

I think clinical nursing should remain open to ADN prepared nurses. On the other hand, it should take a BSN to be a charge nurse (hospital and nursing home setting) and to have any sort of management position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9,882 Visitors; 255 Posts

Most ADN programs cram about three years worth of knowledge into a two year program right now...they might as well make it a four year program.

But in these times, we NEED cannon fodder... so nothing will change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

suni has 15 years experience and works as a surg rn.

12,097 Visitors; 477 Posts

I am a diploma grad who also did get my BSN 10 years later. I will say that I have a better understanding of management and leadership concerns now and research. I also look at critical thinking differenctly then I did before, I did possess good critical thinking skills, do I th ink my BSN makes me a better nurse? Not really" but it has increased my knowledge base, it doesn't really matter to me what rung of the ladder you are on everyone has something to contriubte and we are all part of a team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

marymark has 31 years experience and works as a Clinical Manager, Lehigh Valley Heart Specialists,.

610 Visitors; 5 Posts

I think pursuing a higher degree is always an overall plus - yes, we learn critical thinking and become more well-rounded individuals and certainly our writing skills improve. I graduated from an AD program in 1980 and completed my BSN in 2009 and am now slowly working on my MSN. At 60 years old, I doubt a requirement will be that nurses have a BSN or MSN any time soon due to the shortages in nurses as the Baby Boomers age - more and more nurses are going to be needed. However, higher degrees will optimize the choices by nurses. We are better because we have admitted that learning is a lifelong process and it opens our minds to be more flexible and accept the wide changes in health care delivery. I am hoping I will reap the benefits of an MSN if I choose to teach or perhaps consult as I grow less able to handle the day to day stress. Currently in middle management of an 18 physician hospital owned cardiology practice and it is very stressful - not as stressful as hospital nursing or management, but nonetheless, after 30 plus years of nursing, it is stressful. As nurses, we have to continuously evaluate where we have been, where we are, and where we are going because our profession is constantly changing. If I want to remain competitive, I must grow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
advertisement

DoGoodThenGo works as a Entrepreneur - Business Owner.

40,152 Visitors; 4,111 Posts

Don't think schools or rather the education lobby will benefit or even is behind this push for "BSN", but it is happening in response to feedback from hospitals/clinical settings.

Don't know about elsewhere, but in NYC diploma schools slowly died for many reasons, and one was hospitals wanted college prepared nurses. Indeed when one contacted the College of Mount Saint Vincent to ask about their nursing program, I asked if TCOMSV was affliated in any way with the Saint Vinny's school in Greenwich Village. As it happened the woman used to work there and stated flat out "no" they weren't, and that the program closed mainly because "no one wanted to hire them". St. Vincent's Manhattan had a top notch nursing program that not only broke ground in nursing education, but developed models that are still used in other schools of nursing across the United States. In the end none of that seemed to matter to DON's or whomever was doing the hiring of nurses at particular NYC hospitals.

IIRC, associate and diploma (what there is left of them) degree programs out number BSN programs, so it cannot be a good thing for the former to simply have the former go by the wayside suddenly. There simply is not enough space in four year programs for all those applicants. Not to mention not everyone is ready or capable of handling a BS degree right off the bat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

head3rd has 1 years experience and works as a Staff Nurse.

1,519 Visitors; 27 Posts

I have to say the often idea that BSN prepared nurses are better is ridiculous. I recently graduated from an ADN program in Texas and as a second career RN at age 40, I did my homework. I looked into the pass rates of BSN vs ADN nurses on the Hesi exit exams and the NCLEX, I was originally thinking about a BSN program but I was shocked to see that the ADN pass rates at least here in Austin were dramatically higher, 20%+ higher.

Even funnier was a few years later just before graduation I was at a job fair and hear a soon to be BSN graduate talking about how ADN programs will be gone in a few years.... I guess that's part of the teaching of the BSN schools as well. I assume they don't teach the students to read the entire research articles, don't they realize this debate has been going on for almost 40 years, it was based on a paper published in 1974 (I think) that said ADN programs would lower the standard of nursing. Yet we lowly ADN nurses do better on the tests to become nurses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2,707 Visitors; 59 Posts

I find myself wondering, if you already have a Bachelors, just not a BSN, is there really such a grand difference? My intentions are to get the BSN, mostly to take it out of the equation should I choose to change jobs, I wouldn't want to not get a job for the lack of it, however I am pursuing certification in my specialty first, since it's more applicable to my current practice. If I wanted to pursue management, I guess I would get an MSN.

Further education does have its applications, but the evidence to support better nursing care due to having a BSN seems a little iffy. Give me the thirty year ICU nurse who may only have an ADN but can sense a change in patient status on a dime.

If I thought that having a BSN would translate into a higher salary, then I would already be doing it. That seems to be the crux of the problem. Hospitals may say they WANT it, but they don't seem prepared to pay for it in a salary differential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 Followers; 103,021 Visitors; 14,620 Posts

I graduated from an excellent hospital-based diploma program (3 years of full-time study, inc. through the summers) and, years later, completed a BSN only so that I could go to grad school. Since then, I've taught in ADN and BSN programs. I not only got a much better education in general nursing in my diploma program than any of the ADN or BSN programs I've encountered since offer, I also learned more about professionalism, ethics, legal issues in nursing, leadership/management, critical thinking, and all that good stuff than I did in my BSN completion program that was supposed to make me a real "professional," or than students in the BSN programs with which I've had experience since then get.

In the last BSN program in which I taught, a respectable-but-not-particularly-distinguished state uni program, the students were learning v. little of what you actually need to know to get through a shift in an acute care setting because most of the faculty felt that teaching skills was beneath their dignity and exalted education -- a common notion I heard from various other faculty members was that it didn't matter that the students weren't learning skills because skills weren't important; what was important was teaching them to think critically. Well, I taught a specialty that was the final course in the nursing program, the last class before the nursing students graduated with their spiffy BSN degrees, including having the students in clinical, and I can tell you that the majority of the students not only seemed to know virtually nothing about nursing and how to do what most nurses do all day, they also couldn't "critically think" their way out of a paper bag! I really fear for the future of nursing after that experience.

I have no problem at all with the idea of higher education for nursing, and even requiring a BSN degree as the entry into practice in theory -- I just have a serious problem with how nursing education in general (esp. in BSN programs) is designed and implemented these days. I think we've really "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" in the push to move from hospital-based programs to college-based programs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 Followers; 103,021 Visitors; 14,620 Posts

I find myself wondering, if you already have a Bachelors, just not a BSN, is there really such a grand difference? My intentions are to get the BSN, mostly to take it out of the equation should I choose to change jobs, I wouldn't want to not get a job for the lack of it, however I am pursuing certification in my specialty first, since it's more applicable to my current practice. If I wanted to pursue management, I guess I would get an MSN.

Further education does have its applications, but the evidence to support better nursing care due to having a BSN seems a little iffy. Give me the thirty year ICU nurse who may only have an ADN but can sense a change in patient status on a dime.

If I thought that having a BSN would translate into a higher salary, then I would already be doing it. That seems to be the crux of the problem. Hospitals may say they WANT it, but they don't seem prepared to pay for it in a salary differential.

The difference that a BSN offers is not so much a higher salary for a bedside nursing position as it is being considered qualified for a much broader range of positions and opportunities, many of which either pay better or are significantly "cushier" positions than bedside nursing.

As for the BSN vs. BS-in-another-area question (which gets asked often here), the answer is that it depends on the employer. Some employers will consider an ADN plus a non-nursing BS/BA the equivalent of a BSN, some won't. There is specific, worthwhile nursing content and experience in a BSN program that you don't get in an ADN program -- typically community/public health and leadership/management, plus an undergraduate-level introduction to statistics and research -- so it's not accurate to say, as one so often hears, that there's no real difference between the content in an ADN program and a BSN program, and everyone "should" consider an ADN + BA/BS the same as a BSN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 Followers; 103,021 Visitors; 14,620 Posts

... but I was shocked to see that the ADN pass rates at least here in Austin were dramatically higher, 20%+ higher.

(This is true across the nation, every year -- BSN grads, as a group, score the lowest on the NCLEX, ADN grads are in the middle, and diploma school grads score the highest as a group. Now, whether or not the NCLEX is a really meaningful measure of anything is a whole 'nother discussion ... :D)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing 0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×