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The Eighth Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. is...

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by Anxious Patient Anxious Patient (Member) Member

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You are reading page 2 of The Eighth Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. is.... If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

BradleyRN is a BSN, RN and specializes in Med Surg, LTC, Home Health.

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I'm not trying to detract from a very serious problem that I believe nursing must own and owe up to.

I dont believe nursing should own this problem, but rather the businessmen who control nursing.

Of course, nurses take the assignments they cant handle, so it is on them too, except that when

they try complaining, they complain their way right out of a job. Still though, id have to give

them 40% of the blame for their inability to stand up for themselves and their patients.:)

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BradleyRN is a BSN, RN and specializes in Med Surg, LTC, Home Health.

511 Posts; 6,334 Profile Views

Actually my goal is to go advanced practice and since the doctors whined about APNs and the nurses got all moany and ***** about it I'll avoid the hypocrite road by not moaning about med aides. :D

Doctors can whine about APN's, just not the use of the term "doctor" by someone with a doctorate. They have a legitimate fear that APN's will displace their jobs, just as nurses do about med aides. But let's not pretend that you are avoiding moaning about med aides to not be a hypocrite, when in fact it is because you are a med aide. You defend their position, and i defend the just position. There is no hypocrisy going on. :)

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2,098 Posts; 16,180 Profile Views

Indeed, I'm a med aide that hasn't made a med error. ;)

However, the points you bring up about med aides tend to be overinflated and plain wrong.

Med Aides aren't a new thing. They've been around at least a decad (in my direct experience) and maybe longer.

There has been no increase in errors due to them and no decline in care due to them.

So... what's your argument other than 'They are taking my job.'

That would be like me whining about the Reserves takign my job when I was Active Duty. Nonsense.

Obviously the med errors are so high though that we might as well have med aides do it. It can't get any worse than it already is now can it? ;)

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arelle68 has 3 years experience and specializes in Mental and Behavioral Health.

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This is scary to me because I just graduated, and got my first job. It is at an LTC, and I am responsible for the care and the meds of 23 rsdts. These people have like 10 meds each. I have been told that as I pass meds, I am also responsible for answering the phone, supervising CNAs, assessing all my rsdts, and running the unit. They say that I'm the charge nurse. I thought they had to be kidding. They weren't.

Regarding medication aides, GET ME ONE! I could even use two.

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StNeotser has 10 years experience as a ASN, RN.

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Still though, id have to give

them 40% of the blame for their inability to stand up for themselves and their patients.:)

This is because of nursings inability to stand up and be counted with one voice. I said in another post I had always been anti-union before starting a nursing job. I believe we need some professional organization that stands up for us, so that in turn we can have safe levels of staffing that does not lead to bad care and fatal medication errors. What we want to achieve and Friedman economics do not go hand in hand. I am not a socialist or a communist or anything else but the current business model of most hospitals, for profit and non profit is not right for adequate health care.

However, as individuals we will never get anywhere if we keep walking off the job individually and try to find something "better".

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Cindy-san specializes in CCU & CTICU.

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But, how trained are med aides? Do they know if they're giving something that's inappropriate? Do they check vitals right beforehand?

RNs don't just pass meds, they make sure the dose, indication, pt status, etc, are all correct. That's why I never understood how hosps could get away with having nurses that just pass meds. I think you need to actually be caring for the pt to do that. How do they know what happened in the last hour or so otherwise?

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2,098 Posts; 16,180 Profile Views

But, how trained are med aides? Do they know if they're giving something that's inappropriate? Do they check vitals right beforehand?

RNs don't just pass meds, they make sure the dose, indication, pt status, etc, are all correct. That's why I never understood how hosps could get away with having nurses that just pass meds. I think you need to actually be caring for the pt to do that. How do they know what happened in the last hour or so otherwise?

The inverse to that is how trained are nurses if med errors are the 8th leading cause of death?

I could see nurses questioning them if med aides were making the majority of the errors .

However, they aren't so why aren't nurses questioning themselves?

There are a thousand "I hate med aide' threads here but not a single "Oops, we as nurses are dropping the ball on meds" threads...

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lamazeteacher specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

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What's abominable is a profession causing the 8th most deaths arguing about it at all...

Ya might want to remove the mite from your own eye.

Medication aides have documented less errors. Obviously education isn't necessary to pass meds or nurses wouldn't be screwing it up...

;)

Uh, Stanley and Anxious Patient, beware of articles bearing untruths. Even the links given as references for the bogus post, have no reference to nurse error. Indeed, the 8th most frequent cause of death given by the CDC is influenza leading to pneumonia (63,000 deaths yearly, most in elderly or chronically ill folks, I'm willing to bet).

Someone may have it in for med techs (not I, I hadn't heard of them before this post), who probably make less than nurses. I always say "follow the money" for reasons......

OTC and prescription drug mismanagement by patients at home may have been researched (or not), and may contribute their own number of untoward deaths from overdose, interaction with other meds, etc. I'll never forget my 10 year old son's return from a skiing trip with his dad and dad's current girlfriend, with severe vertigo, and complaining of "seeing double" (26 years ago)., He'd caught a cold and must have complained sufficiently, so his dad bought 3 different decongestants and gave them too often. Hmmmmm, I wonder what the stats are on murder committed by ex-wives discovering maltreatment of their child during visitation with dad?

I'm also reminded of the celebrex scandal caused by an anaesthesiologist who reached for the $20,000 lollipop dangled in front of him by the manufacturer, who wanted to market that drug as a useful analgesic for post op pain. That "researcher" made up all the figures he concocted to prove that it was OK to use celebrex for that. He's in jail.

I think the reasons nurses do make errors administering medications to patients, is

1. Not being conditioned during their clinical practise to check the order with the label 3 times and also the patient's ID bracelet: right med, right dose, right route, right patient!

2. Ambiguous labeling on products that need to be diluted, using calculations incorrectly.

3. Being too rushed, distracted and tired.

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herring_RN specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

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what's abominable is a profession causing the 8th most deaths arguing about it at all...

ya might want to remove the mite from your own eye.

medication aides have documented less errors. obviously education isn't necessary to pass meds or nurses wouldn't be screwing it up...

;)

nurses intercept most errors made by others.

when nurses are replaced with unlicensed techs the odds of dying due to failure to rescue increases.

this is whether or not the person makes a medication error.

nurses intercept 86% of all medication errors made by physicians, pharmacists, and others prior to the provision of those medications to patients-lucian leape et all, jama, 1995

i saw the journal but don't have a link. only the abstract is on line - http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/274/1/35

it is mentioned in this article - http://www.allbusiness.com/management/3604926-1.html

and this - http://www.nursingcenter.com/library/journalarticleprint.asp?article_id=503368#23

one study of preventable adverse drug events in hospitals found that 34 percent of medication errors took place in the course of administering the drug (a nursing role), as opposed to occurring as a part of ordering, transcribing, or dispensing the drug (66%) (bates et al., 1995).

a similar 6-month study of all adverse drug events in two tertiary care hospitals found that 38 percent occurred during the administration of the drug by nursing staff. ) (pepper, 1995). 62% of errors were not nurse related.

national academy of sciences, keeping patients safe: transforming the work environment of nurses - http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309090679

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vashtee is a RN and specializes in DOU.

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Although I realize medication errors are a serious problem, I tend to take these studies less seriously than I used to after I discovered that in one study I read in detail, overdoses by junkies using prescribed medications were included as "medication errors".

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2,098 Posts; 16,180 Profile Views

Although I realize medication errors are a serious problem, I tend to take these studies less seriously than I used to after I discovered that in one study I read in detail, overdoses by junkies using prescribed medications were included as "medication errors".

Does a junkie overdose really count as an error???

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vashtee is a RN and specializes in DOU.

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Does a junkie overdose really count as an error???

I don't know about the study that this thread is referring to, but they did in a study I read from some mid-western state that actually cited numbers. Now I am suspicious whenever I hear about "medication errors".

According to NCC MERP, http://www.nccmerp.org/aboutMedErrors.html

"A medication error is any preventable event that may cause or lead to inappropriate medication use or patient harm while the medication is in the control of the health care professional, patient, or consumer. Such events may be related to professional practice, health care products, procedures, and systems, including prescribing; order communication; product labeling, packaging, and nomenclature; compounding; dispensing; distribution; administration; education; monitoring; and use."

It looks like that would include abuse by people not hospitalized.

Here's another link to an article that talks about the rise in lethal overdoses at home with prescription medications. I'm not sure the medication errors cited in the original article differentiates between hospital errors and home errors. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25886212/

Edited by vashtee

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