Many hospitals are moving towards creating mandatory influenza vaccination policies as a condition of employment. Such mandates are causing surefire responses on both sides of the fence. What is the push behind the movement, and what is causing the pushback?
Updated:
First, let me just go over some of the symptoms of the flu, and then we will get down to business on the controversy surrounding the push to create mandatory flu vaccines for healthcare workers:
I can't think of anyone who wants any of these symptoms, or to come down with the flu, can you?
Influenza vaccination research has clearly documented the benefits of receiving the flu vaccine (Google it - you will find a plethora of information...however, I will list some links at the end of this article for your information). However, even though there is sufficient evidence to prove the benefits of receiving the flu vaccine, vaccination rates among healthcare workers are pitifully low. In 2013, only 55% of nurses in the frontlines were vaccinated.
Organizations such as The Joint Commission, the American Nurses Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Physicians, Infectious Diseases Society of America, the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the Centers for Disease Control, Healthy People 2020, etc., etc., have stated their position on recommending the flu vaccine for healthcare workers in order to decrease the risk of exposure and reduce deaths. Due to this recommendation, many healthcare facilities are now creating mandatory flu vaccine policies as a condition of employment.
Employers who create mandatory policies will have exemptions, of course. Exemptions are made for medical and religious exceptions. For places that do not have a mandatory flu vaccine, they may "strongly recommend" the vaccination and may have a declination form for employees to submit if they refuse the vaccine. Additionally, some employers will enforce refusers to wear a mask during flu season while they are at work in order to protect the patients and the employee.
Evidence has shown that there are more than 36,000 deaths in the US each year related to influenza, and more than 200,000 hospitalizations. Influenza is the 6th leading cause of death. Healthcare workers are the leading cause of influenza outbreaks in the healthcare system. up to 50% of people who are infected by the flu virus do not fill ill for several days and can spread the virus to people at risk of complications and death from the flu. Additionally, evidence shows vaccination decreases mortality by 40%, decreases the spread of nosocomial infections by 43%, and decreases absenteeism by 20-30%.
Additionally, there is the ethics to consider. As healthcare workers, we have all taken an oath to "do no harm". As a nurse caring for patients who are not in their most physically healthy state, do we take the vaccination in order to prevent spreading the flu to our vulnerable patients, in order to "do no harm"? We must consider this when we make our decision to take or refuse the vaccination.
I have the names of a few hospitals, and this is by no means a comprehensive list. This is based on a ListServe survey of hospitals and these are the responses received:
Refusal may be largely due to misconceptions related to the vaccine. Fears that the immune system will cause them to get the flu, beliefs that hygiene and better nutrition are more helpful than the vaccine, fear of needles, beliefs that the vaccine does not work, and fear of side effects. Others believe that they have a constitutional right to refuse the vaccine and that mandatory policies are violating these rights.
(taken from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health outline of flu vaccine talking points for managers)
The flu shot does not give people the flu. It uses inactivated ("dead") virus. People may still catch a cold or other virus that the vaccine is not designed match.
Studies have shown that flu vaccination prevents flu in 70% to 90% of healthy adults younger than 65 years old.
You need a new vaccine every year - the virus changes over time.
Serious adverse reactions are very rare. They are explained on the CDC's Vaccine Information Statement, which is distributed when the vaccine is administered.
Local short-term reactions - such soreness at the vaccination site, slight fever, achy feeling - may occur but usually do not last long. Over the counter medicines are helpful. Even short-term reactions are much less bothersome than catching the flu and feeling very sick for days.
Your patients are at-risk, and possibly some friends and family members. You can be infected with the flu virus but not feel ill - and can still transmit flu to at-risk patients.
Inactivated influenza vaccine is effective in preventing transmission and reducing complications of the flu. In years when there is a close match between the vaccine and circulating virus strains, the vaccine prevents illness among approximately 70%--90% of healthy adults under 65 years of age. Vaccinating healthy adults also has been proven to lead to decreased work absenteeism and use of health-care resources, including use of antibiotics. Strong protection is also expected when the vaccine is not a close match with circulating strains, with 50%--77% effectiveness in these instances. In addition, effectiveness against influenza-related hospitalization for healthy adults from inactivated vaccine is estimated at 90%.
All healthcare facilities will be facing the choice of creating a mandatory influenza vaccination in the near future, if they have not already. In order to make an informed decision on the topic, we must have information. Knowledge is power. Before you make a blanket statement on pros or cons, have the information you need, know the research, and make an educated decision.
Please respond to this article by answering the following questions:
References
American Association of Family Practitioners. (2011). AAFP supports mandatory flu vaccinations for healthcare personnel. Retrieved from: AAFP Supports Mandatory Flu Vaccinations for Health Care Personnel
ATrain. (2014). To accept or refuse the flu vaccine. Retrieved from: ZZZ_133_Influenza: Module 7
CDC. (2014). Vaccination: Who should do it, who should not and who should take precautions. Retrieved from: Vaccination: Who Should Do It, Who Should Not and Who Should Take Precautions | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
Influenza Action Coalition. (2015). Influenza vaccination honor roll. Retrieved from: Honor Roll: Mandatory Influenza Vaccination Policies for Healthcare Personnel
Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. (2014). Talking points for managers. Retrieved from: http://tinyurl.com/p6nbg2u
National adult and influenza immunization summit. (2015). Vaccinating healthcare personnel. Retrieved from: Vaccinating Healthcare Personnel - National Adult and Influenza Immunization Summit
NursingTimes. (2014). Why do health workers decline flu vaccination? Retrieved from: http://www.nursingtimes.net/Journals/2014/11/28/y/k/x/031214-Why-do-health-workers-decline-flu-vaccination.pdf
TJC. (2012). R3 Report: Requirement, rationale, reference. Retrieved from: http://www.jointcommission.org/assets/1/18/R3_Report_Issue_3_5_18_12_final.pdf
The vaccine does not "lower your immune system". I know you don't understand it yourself and you are just regurgitating what you have read non mercola.com or natural Nancy's blog or Facebook group. Empower yourself and actually learn about the issues you are talking about otherwise these people are exploiting you. You have in other posts called the scientific community " sheep" yet the real sheep are the people who rehash what they hear without understanding it.Seriously, educate and empower yourself, then revisit these claims and see if you still think they hold any merit. Read about adaptive immunity and see if it makes sense what Mercola is trying to sell you.
I learned how to treat respiratory problems for years before getting on the internet and reading Mercola, or any other alternative. I thought actually it was "just me" lol. They, Mercola and others like Andrew Saul, only confirmed what I knew.
Like your pic ixchel :), but that's not "medical" advice, it's health advice. If someone can't tell that poor person what's actually happening, I'm sorry. I learned from my own experience how to treat respiratory problems, for years. I know what they are.
Thank you for the compliment.
Any recommendation of self care that requires medicinal/herbal/supplemental intake is medical advice. If this is what you call "health advice", then your understanding of what medical advice is is incorrect.
Herbs, vitamins or other supplements have an effect on the body. You do not know that person's medical history or allergies. If they have a citric acid allergy/sensitivity that causes a severe reaction, and they don't understand that vitamin C supplements generally contain citric acid, they will go try one and have a reaction.
Your own experience with respiratory problems ONLY applies to YOU. If you tell someone that all they need is albuterol and supplemental oxygen, you may have just given a person with a-fib and COPD advice that may literally kill them.
You said: If someone can't tell that poor person what's actually happening, I'm sorry.
The problem is that you gave them inaccurate information. The flu shot does not "lower the immune system". After you get the flu shot, your body recognizes there are foreign strands of DNA. Your body actively learns what they are, remembers what they are, and gets rid of them. Through this process, if you are exposed to any of the 4 strands of DNA in the vaccine after getting it, your body has learned what they are and gets rid of them before you get sick. The vaccine BOOSTS your immune system.
If you are one of those people who feels slightly under the weather in the few days after vaccination, that is a sign of an active and intact immune system, as your body is shedding secretions and raising your temperature slightly to help with killing the virus. Now, we know the injected vaccine is already dead, but the body doesn't. This is another sign your immune system is doing well.
- Do I take the flu vaccine yearly: Yes
- Is it mandatory by employer? I'm not working right now. However in the past
my experience has been that sick days won't be paid if vaccine wasn't taken
- Any concerns? None prior; I got it yesterday & arm was pretty sore rest of day- but is fine today.
- Never known anyone to be fired for refusing vaccine.
BostonFNP-- I enjoy your knowledge! And you have the patience of a saint.
Rusti- Other than outright agitation, why do you keep reviving this thread? You aren't trying to learn anything because you deny scientific & medical facts in favor of your personal beliefs.
It can't be that you think one day any one of 'us' will suddenly say- "by golly, you're right! Throw out all those pills!! Oranges for everyone!!!"
Surely there are enough people who think as you do that ya'll can start your own forum?
Just a thought...
Ahh..
Do u take the flu vax?
No, I had a really bad reaction(had to be hospitalized) to a flu vax when I was 18 and have been traumatized since. drs didnt figure out why I had a reaction and I ended up leaving AMA.
I do the other vax though.
Mandatory at job? No
And don't know anyone who has been fired for refusing. I may attempt to get a flu vaccine this year still haven't decided if I want to risk/relive my experience.
They, Mercola and others like Andrew Saul, only confirmed what I knew.
This is the very definition of pseudoscience. You had a belief and you searched out support for your belief. It is the exact opposite of the scientific process and rational thought. A scientific or rational individual when presented with sufficient evidence will be swayed to the argument. Pseudoscientists or irratioinal individuals are only swayed by their own opinion or by their own opinion. It's why pseudoscience is so closely tied to the paranormal and to conspiracy theory.
Here is something to consider, at least rhetorically.
Take some time, rusti, and think about how you "just knew". Truely, where did your expertise in treating upper respiratory conditions come from? You were just chosen to have the knowledge that other people like nurses and doctors have to go to 7-8 years of school for?
Then how do you explain why when they took 11,000+ people and gave half of them prophylactic vitamin C and half nothing did the occurance of upper respiratory infections stay the same? Why when they do the same study with influenza vaccine does the group with vaccination have 50-75% less cases of influenza? Think about it and think about your " expertise".
You want to know what really scares me? It's not that you want to take vitamin C, its pretty benign, its that you tell others to do the same thing without a care in the world. This scares me because at some point down the road, as a result from that, I may have to have a very difficult conversation with a hysterical mother as I get ready to sedate and intubate her child and hope that ARDS doesn't kill him or her. Can you sleep with that? I can't that's why before I give advice to anyone I make sure I understand the implications of that advice. Do you want to see what a chest X-ray of someone with influenza induced ARDS looks like? Imagine (don't try it) what it might feel like to try and breathe with wet washcloth overnyour face. Then think of your child or your family member feeling that because of advice you gave them.
You want to know what really scares me? It's not that you want to take vitamin C, its pretty benign, its that you tell others to do the same thing without a care in the world. This scares me because at some point down the road, as a result from that, I may have to have a very difficult conversation with a hysterical mother as I get ready to sedate and intubate her child and hope that ARDS doesn't kill him or her. Can you sleep with that? I can't that's why before I give advice to anyone I make sure I understand the implications of that advice. Do you want to see what a chest X-ray of someone with influenza induced ARDS looks like? Imagine (don't try it) what it might feel like to try and breathe with wet washcloth overnyour face. Then think of your child or your family member feeling that because of advice you gave them.
No idea what this case is secondary to, but it should suffice.
This one is relatively mild, too. Not quite as bad in the left lung, and certainly is capable of getting worse than the right.
Rusti, in case you aren't comfortable reading X-rays, the photo on the left has blackened areas within the lungs that show where air exchange is capable of happening. In other words, when you breath, that's where the air ends up. On the right, as you can see, there is very little blackened space by comparison. All of the white is space where air is not going. It is being stopped by fluid. The brighter the white, the less that air can fill. This person will feel like they can't breathe, literally. For lack of a better way of explaining it, they are drowning in their own body fluids. They may be gasping for breath, and will often be intubated (given a breathing tube) because they just can't get rid of carbon dioxide or get enough oxygen in.
This is a life-threatening complication of the flu. Even the young, healthy adult is at risk for this.
I got it this year because it was required by my job, and I want to work as much as I can now so I can save enough $ to quit my job and focus on my business that I just started. I don't want this crap in my body, so never having to get a flu shot again is just one more incentive to bust my ass to succeed in self-employment!
This is the very definition of pseudoscience. You had a belief and you searched out support for your belief. It is the exact opposite of the scientific process and rational thought. A scientific or rational individual when presented with sufficient evidence will be swayed to the argument. Pseudoscientists or irratioinal individuals are only swayed by their own opinion or by their own opinion. It's why pseudoscience is so closely tied to the paranormal and to conspiracy theory.Here is something to consider, at least rhetorically.
Take some time, rusti, and think about how you "just knew". Truely, where did your expertise in treating upper respiratory conditions come from? You were just chosen to have the knowledge that other people like nurses and doctors have to go to 7-8 years of school for?
Then how do you explain why when they took 11,000+ people and gave half of them prophylactic vitamin C and half nothing did the occurance of upper respiratory infections stay the same? Why when they do the same study with influenza vaccine does the group with vaccination have 50-75% less cases of influenza? Think about it and think about your " expertise".
You want to know what really scares me? It's not that you want to take vitamin C, its pretty benign, its that you tell others to do the same thing without a care in the world. This scares me because at some point down the road, as a result from that, I may have to have a very difficult conversation with a hysterical mother as I get ready to sedate and intubate her child and hope that ARDS doesn't kill him or her. Can you sleep with that? I can't that's why before I give advice to anyone I make sure I understand the implications of that advice. Do you want to see what a chest X-ray of someone with influenza induced ARDS looks like? Imagine (don't try it) what it might feel like to try and breathe with wet washcloth overnyour face. Then think of your child or your family member feeling that because of advice you gave them.
I have had an Experience, and for years (not a "belief"). I understand the difference.
I didn't have a remedy from asthma with medication. Obviously, it helped me temporarily, but, asthma didn't stop returning. Only got more occurrences actually. Vitamin C not only has stopped asthma attacks, but, it's a very rare occurrence (not in 7 years or so) since a mold condition in the rural area we live at this time. What I question is how and what vitamin C was used in those studies. Ascorbic acid alone does not work as well as one with bioflavanoids. Not only did I realize it for myself, I then read it online as well. So, there again, I know my experience, and it's not a "belief". I know conventionals dismiss what people say easily regarding vitamins, but, I wouldn't have found out how well they worked till I tried them for myself. I like giving others the chance to look into things for themselves too, for their sake. I'm scared of conventional meds. more so. I used to think we were all on the same page, wanting people to get healthy. I really don't think that anymore. sorry.
Just to add. The fact that she got the flu 4 out of the 5 last years despite getting the vaccine, if that's not clear evidence that the flu vaccine is NOT working, I don't know what is. There are far safer preventatives than that.
SmilingBluEyes
20,964 Posts
Based on this violation of TOS alone, this person should be disallowed to continue here. She/he has REPEATEDLY violated the non-medical advice part of TOS NUMEROUS times already.