520 supervised furnishing hours in CA

fnpjenn · Jun 23, 2011

I wish someone would reply to this question, because I'd like details about the answer to it as well.

SkiBumNP · Jun 23, 2011

I am three months into my 6 months (remember that it is 6 months and 520 hours). I work in a busy emergency department and always have my attending MD (I am working alongside the other MD/DO residence). with all my in house orders i just enter them in under my name. with my scrips I print them off (with my name on them) and then i have my attending sign them. (some of them have stamps with their name, license, and DEA # - others do not) I have yet to have any returned.

fnpjenn · Jun 25, 2011

Thanks, SkiBum! I wonder why I keep hearing that people get it before the 6 months as long as they complete the required hours. Thoughts?

SkiBumNP · Jun 25, 2011

they must be F.O.S.

Full of S. . . .

Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C · Jun 26, 2011

I have been searching this forum for awhile looking for information on the 520 hours needed to obtain a furnishing number in CA.
My real question is what did this time period look like for you? Were you working in a practice, seeing patients and then the physician would come in and prescribe a drug if necessary? How closely supervised are you during this 6 month period after your basic orientation is done?
Any info would be great. I have all the documents from the brn website as well, but they don't get into the specifics of what this "supervised" time looks like prior to having a furnishing number.
I assume when they talk about physician supervision being within telephone contact that they mean after you are practicing solo with a furnishing and DEA number.
Thanks in advance for any help!

The intelligence of California regulations coupled with the lack of California NP leadership always leaves me scratching my head. AMA/CMA fought hard to specifically remove "prescribing" from the scope for NP's. Since the vast majority of NP's here consider themselves mid level, physician extending medical assistants coupled with the lack of leadership in our state's NP association, there's little outcry. So it goes--we "furnish" or "make medications available. Kind of like a crack dealer, I suppose except they are pretty much autonomous. The only State in the US where NP's can't "prescribe".

The logic for obtaining a furnishing certificate is breathtaking. You need 24 weeks and 520 hours of experience "furnishing" under a physician under SP's. There are no regulations that define any difference between furnishing with a furnishing certificate and furnishing for the 520 hours needed for the furnishing certificate. Both deals require SP's and some level of physician supervision. Here's the best part: You are not permitted to "furnish" unless you have a "furnishing certificate" yet without the "furnishing experience" you can't obtain a "furnishing certificate" Only in the Peoples Republic of California.

For me, it took over a year, because I could only work part time, as I was going through a DNP program. I used both my civilian, police and military NP hours to equal the 520. Also, make sure you take that mickey mouse Schedule II course that CANP offers via CD and submit with your BRN application. Otherwise you won't be able to write for Schedule II's.

Although the BRN cashed my check with 48 hours, it somehow took them an additional 5 weeks to review the three forms I sent with my application before they issued my cert. At least I feel warm knowing my fees help keep people off of unemployment.

guest416560 · Jun 30, 2011

I just had a potential employer, MD in California tell me as a NP I will not be able to prescribe Schedule II drugs. I looked at the CA BON practice act and it says that we can.

Has something changed recently that I don't know about or does this MD have his head up his ass?

fnpjenn · Jul 1, 2011

Interesting, and so frustrating!! Ugh, I guess I'm in for the 6-month long haul!

SkiBumNP · Jul 1, 2011

I just had a potential employer, MD in California tell me as a NP I will not be able to prescribe Schedule II drugs. I looked at the CA BON practice act and it says that we can.
Has something changed recently that I don't know about or does this MD have his head up his ass?

it is more the latter

(though if that MD's standards of practice for his NPs have it written in that would be something you would need to discuss)

though if it is that old, or this MD truly does have their head where it shouldn't be

Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C · Jul 1, 2011

I just had a potential employer, MD in California tell me as a NP I will not be able to prescribe Schedule II drugs. I looked at the CA BON practice act and it says that we can.
Has something changed recently that I don't know about or does this MD have his head up his ass?

Yes and No. Yes, as a NP, you can write for schedule II's (If you have BRN NP/furnishing cert/Schedule II CE course and DEA registration). No, if your MD supervisor will not allow you to do so. Remember, in California NP's have no scope of practice beyond a RN. Because of our medical assistant status, our technical function is dictated by the supervising physician. Only when NP's get it together and reject the "mid level" name and status quo and recognize themselves as nursing professionals versus second-rate physician extenders, will we have full authority as other states operating in the 21st century.

DEWMO · Sep 10, 2012

I just found your post on this subject and was very interested mainly due to what you said about your accumulative hours from different sources. I was working with a NP a few months ago and she was wondering as how to fill her furnishing application as she had several different MD's from different companies that she worked with in the past year. I honestly had no answer to that and encouraged her to ask the BRN. But as we all have experienced, no one answers the phone in that office!

She is still looking for an answer, and when I saw your comment I figured she would really appreciate any info on this matter.

Thank you!