Petitionary Prayer As A Way To Get Through A Rough Shift

It would be lovely if we could discuss---just this once---non-pharmacological ways to center ourselves in the midst of chaos, without incendiary comments or bashing people of faith/people of no faith/people who just haven't figured out what they believe. :)

In keeping with that, I will only say that I love your prayer, Commuter, and have printed it out for my office bulletin board. Thank you for sharing it with us. :redbeathe

It would be great if we could discuss anything on this site without it turning into a church service or an evangelical rally. I'll give you this: at least in this case the post was in the spirituality group.

Guess what folks? Even in the Deep South, not everyone is an evangelical Christian.

[color=#333333]the lord's prayer is in effect groveling at the feet of a bearded old man with the attitude of a nurse ratched running a supply depot. i don't understand why people find it inspiring.

i thought it was just a very old poem written by the early catholic church and edited a bit by king henry viii for the episcopal church.

it appears in matthew 6:9-13 pretty much in the form people use today. i wonder how many of those people are familiar with matthew 6:1.

While I consider myself a Christian, I will not deny that I DO NOT understand God. Yet, I believe. Life is no "accident", and we truly see through a glass darkly. The design of DNA proves, to me, a higher intelligence.

It proves to you? By "proof," you mean the ideology of the belief system in which you were indoctrinated by your culture appeals to you. Likely, had you been born into a different tradition, you'd adhere just as strongly to that tradition.

When you talk about the origin of life, you are in the realm of either science or mythology. There is no other possibility. What gives you the expertise to think you have definitive knowledge about the origin of life?

Among those who do have expertise in genetics, your view is in the minority. I think those folks know a thing or two about "proof."

If you are not a believer, do not insult those of us who are. If you are not a believer, you need not pray. Go have a talk with yourself, by all means. But that is not prayer.

When it comes to religion, everyone insults everyone else, whether or not they verbalize it.

Why don't we simply respect one another's right to believe, or not? I won't insult your lack of belief, and please don't say I'm "groveling" if I choose to pray.

I respect your right to believe what you like. I'm not obliged to respect what you believe. You're not obliged to respect what I believe. We respect one another's right to be wrong.

You do you, and I'll do me. Because none of us will know 'til we die! Until then, we will all do the best we know how. Let's give one another the freedom and the benefit of the doubt in the mean time.

I trust you don't feel your freedom is being restricted. No one is stopping you from praying wherever and whenever you want. No one is deleting your posts.

The most important thing? To be KIND.

That is a good sentiment, but the religious majority is utterly oblivious to the perspective of the minorities-and I'm not just talking about non-believers, and in those cases it's not just a matter of Jews being called Christ killers and Muslims being called towel heads.

And to realize there are some things that we just can't know. Yet.

We "can't know"? Most religious people are certain that they know. That certainty doesn't just affect them personally. Or are you agnostic?

Get back to me when a non-Christian has a prayer of being elected president in this country. (And guess how some conservative Christians are trying to de-legitimize the current president.)

Spiritual folks, whether new age or members of churches, are unhappy that a thread about meditation (but with "petitionary prayer" in the title) is besmirched by posts from non-believers with a different point of view.

The thing is, the first post in response advocated the Lord's Prayer. Many that followed were the usual Sunday morning stuff. But that, apparently, is fine.

This made my day.

I think that taking a minute to be introspective is fine, but I wouldn't call it 'prayer'. Praying is the act of asking an imaginary being to suspend the natural laws of the universe in such a way that you get what you want, which tends to happen exactly 0% of the time. I wonder if other forums for professionals have entire sections for people to discuss books written by Iron Age misogynists who advocated slavery...perhaps this part of why we are not taken seriously as a profession.

While I respect your beliefs/opinions/and your right to them, I just have to comment about your assumptions of how and why people pray.

I have NEVER expected or asked God to suspend any natural laws. Nor do I ask for what I want. Instead, I pray in order to develop a relationship with the God I personally believe in. You can no more prove His lack of existence than I can prove His existence. Many believers of all faiths pray not for intercession, but for grace, strength to face what is in front of us, wisdom, and forgiveness. Faith is intensely personal.

And if you never pray or make any attempt to have a relationship with God, or learn about Him, or who He is, you will never experience the power of prayer. Never. I personally struggled with my faith, but the one prayer I have found never fails to be answered is one along the lines of "If you exist, you must reveal yourself to me, b/c I can't see you, I can't hear you, and I don't understand you. " How this prayer was answered is beyond the scope of this post, but please know all Christians are not uneducated, weak, etc., etc. I am educated and have a very scientific bent. I believe in evolution. These kinds of issues are things each believer and non-believer must work out for themselves.

One more note: ALL professions count believers among their numbers.

Food for thought:

"The world has seen a lot of impudent geniuses. What made Einstein special was that his mind and soul were tempered by his humility. He could be serenely self confident in his lonely course yet also humbly awed by the beauty of nature's handiwork. "A spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe- a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble," he (Einstein) wrote. "In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort." (Einstein, again.)

"For some people, miracles serve as evidence of God's existence. For Einstein, IT WAS THE ABSENCE OF MIRACLES THAT REFLECTED DIVINE PROVIDENCE. (caps mine) The fact that the cosmos is comprehensible, that it follows laws, is worthy of awe. This is the defining quality of a "God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists."

This is quoted from Einstein: His Life and Universe by Walter Isaacson.

Prayer or faith have NOTHING to do with being taken seriously as a profession.

It proves to you? By "proof," you mean the ideology of the belief system in which you were indoctrinated by your culture appeals to you. Likely, had you been born into a different tradition, you'd adhere just as strongly to that tradition.

When you talk about the origin of life, you are in the realm of either science or mythology. There is no other possibility. What gives you the expertise to think you have definitive knowledge about the origin of life?

Among those who do have expertise in genetics, your view is in the minority. I think those folks know a thing or two about "proof."

When it comes to religion, everyone insults everyone else, whether or not they verbalize it.

I respect your right to believe what you like. I'm not obliged to respect what you believe. You're not obliged to respect what I believe. We respect one another's right to be wrong.

I trust you don't feel your freedom is being restricted. No one is stopping you from praying wherever and whenever you want. No one is deleting your posts.

That is a good sentiment, but the religious majority is utterly oblivious to the perspective of the minorities — and I'm not just talking about non-believers, and in those cases it's not just a matter of Jews being called Christ killers and Muslims being called towel heads.

We "can't know"? Most religious people are certain that they know. That certainty doesn't just affect them personally. Or are you agnostic?

Get back to me when a non-Christian has a prayer of being elected president in this country. (And guess how some conservative Christians are trying to de-legitimize the current president.)

Spiritual folks, whether new age or members of churches, are unhappy that a thread about meditation (but with "petitionary prayer" in the title) is besmirched by posts from non-believers with a different point of view.

The thing is, the first post in response advocated the Lord's Prayer. Many that followed were the usual Sunday morning stuff. But that, apparently, is fine.

Gosh, I am most certainly not trying to convert anyone. Never said anyone was trying to stop me from praying. And I certainly don't advocate others pray if they do not want to. And I absolutely respect your beliefs. I have no problem with atheists or agnostics. None. Personal choice.

And you are completely wrong about me being "indoctrinated". I share your opinion about different faiths, as a matter of fact. (Meaning I do not believe one is condemned by virtue of being Muslim. Jewish, etc.) But different faiths do not disprove the existence of intelligent design, i.e., God. And I am definitely in the realm of science. My only, and main, point is this: I personally believe that the beautiful order of the universe points to an author, a creator. My belief is that order does not spontaneously arise from chaos. Does a watch or an automobile or a rocket assemble itself? That is what I meant by "proof", and that is MY proof. It may not be yours.

I can't speak to OP's comments, but I stand by my own: being kind is most important, whether a believer or not.

I do not judge others for their religious views. But I do hold people accountable for moral, ethical behavior. I think, as nurses, we can all agree on the importance of moral, ethical behavior. Not all believers are dogmatic and judgmental. I am afraid that may be your opinion. That is why I stated being kind is most important.

Difficult thread. I advocate respect for other's views. I am thinking what upset you about my post was the word "prayer." But, to me, the act of prayer implies a belief in God. Otherwise, as I said, you are basically having a talk with yourself.

There is SO much we can't know. We are debating the existence of God and the horrible behavior of humans in His name! It is a confusing and difficult topic that just goes on and on...And not a soul knows what happens after death.

But I appreciate the lively debate, and welcome different opinions.

interesting discussion....carry on~

It would be great if we could discuss anything on this site without it turning into a church service or an evangelical rally. I'll give you this: at least in this case the post was in the spirituality group.

I think that this site should get rid of the spirituality forum entirely. I recognize that the spirituality of patients is important in their care and that we should facilitate it if it's important to them, but this entire section has turned into a Christian pep rally that seems rather unfocused on patient care and more on personal beliefs. As long as this section remains contaminated by threads and posts about the beliefs of the forum members rather than how we can better patient care by fostering their own spirituality (and not in any hocus-pocus ways), I will continue to be sorely disappointed in this site.

I cannot believe that someone actually said that everyone in the world is a christian, well at least everyone on this site is. INCORRECT!!!! I hope you open your eyes and minds, because I assure you that there are many non christians that you will come across in the world. I think that this article has no place on this forum, my opinion.

Since religions contradict one another as well as those who have no religion, it's impossible to discuss the subject without someone taking offense unless we all just amen one another.

Now tell me where the god of the Lord's Prayer is each time a child dies of leukemia, a painful hereditary condition, or starvation. Or have those children simply not done sufficient marketing, so that they don't have legions of people lobbying God to do the right thing?

I'll wait for someone to tell me I'm going to hell because I'm a heathen. It's amazing how Christians at large don't see that hideously offensive stance as offensive. The hypocrisy runs deep.

The thing is, we can disagree with each other without offending each other. You initially wrote with the intent to mock, while others didn't. I don't care if you don't believe in god, a flying spaghetti monster, this or that. It isn't my problem. I simply stated I found your post offensive. Did I say you were going to hell? Or that you were evil? Do you even know I believe in a hell or not? I didn't. And now you replying to my post with philosophical questions.

I have conversations like this all the time since I am the only one in my family that is of a certain faith which I am not going to discuss. When I converted, I was the black-sheep of my family. I was made fun of constantly because of my religious garb. At first, if they'd invite me to christmas, which in our culture is a booze-fest, I politely declined. They didn't want to talk, they wanted to yell. At first, it was horrible because that gave them more reason to poke-fun. After a while they understood and now everything is ok, after 4 years. They don't yell at me or try to manipulate me anymore, however I am still a black-sheep. I understand them. But I can't change my convictions for them. I can only ask for their respect. I can't even ask for their support.

The reason I say this is because I am used to people disagreeing with me and my beliefs. That's been my life for 4 years. Trust me, I get it. You don't like religion. Great. Doesn't mean you have to mock the Gods/gods/goddesses people believe in. I don't attack athiests. Or other faiths for that matter. It's silly because people have convictions about things we just can't understand.

BTW I am not going to answer your philosophical questions because I know this is to debate, and I don't do that stuff, sorry. I hope you understand the nature of my posts. Actually, you'll be starting at my school next semester, so it would be interesting to meet you and be able to talk personally if you ever want to.

I think that this site should get rid of the spirituality forum entirely. I recognize that the spirituality of patients is important in their care and that we should facilitate it if it's important to them, but this entire section has turned into a Christian pep rally that seems rather unfocused on patient care and more on personal beliefs. As long as this section remains contaminated by threads and posts about the beliefs of the forum members rather than how we can better patient care by fostering their own spirituality (and not in any hocus-pocus ways), I will continue to be sorely disappointed in this site.

We nurses are spiritual beings as much as our patients, are we not? As long as we don't insult those whose beliefs or lack thereof are different from ours, what's wrong with discussing our own spirituality on a nursing site?

everyone has the right to their own beliefs, therefore, we need to learn how to respect and be more sensitive, and acceptable of other cultures or beliefs because at the end we are all in the same boat...just saying