National Walkout Day March 14 at 10am - page 7

Just a reminder to those who have high schools. Tomorrow is National Walkout Day for high schools to protest gun violence. I am all for students voicing their opinions on such a strong issue. What... Read More

  1. by   wondern
    Quote from Leader25
    Why dont they protest rape, violent rap songs, violent video games,teen pregnancy and violence on the elderly, where were the protests after 911?
    Actually I think , first they should pull up their pants.
    Women tried. They did protest. They tried to have a voice, a big voice, and were knocked down over and over again. Instead of video games and rap songs why don't you just protest the real life problems of prostitution, porn, sex trafficking, now including allowing Russians taking over our country on the internet.....and let's throw guns in... it's all just great...again!

    Oh and let's not forget throwing the elderly away in to homes with poor conditions and staffing to be forgotten. Who cares about their pants? That's their way of protest maybe. It's them saying this is what you get people, the same respect you show us and one another. Maybe old folks should start letting their Depends Silhouette hang all out! So what.

    Protest after 911? Wasn't hunting down Osama Bin Laden good enough protest? Thanks Mr. Obama. I saw that and thank you and the men and women who risked their lives doing it.
  2. by   akulahawkRN
    Quote from kidzcare
    I have not shot an AR-15 but I have shot a semi-automatic gun. The video from the classroom at Parkland was 6 seconds long and has at least 20 gunshots. There is NO WAY I could have fired the semi-automatic I did at that rate.

    Here is a surgeon's account of treating wounds from an AR-15: What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body – BGR

    It is not the same. Not even close. Please do the research yourself before recommending that others do so.
    Please do some research yourself too. There are semi-auto rifles that are far more powerful than the AR-15 (and clones), yet those aren't anywhere near as hated. You say you have shot these kinds of firearms before, yet not at the same speed. That's very likely a limitation on your own experience or lack thereof and local range rules. If you're looking to shoot very accurately you don't normally shoot fast. If you don't care about accuracy, fast is easy.

    None of the magazines the Parkland shooter used had a capacity greater than 10 rounds, he just had a LOT of magazines.

    That link you shared? It's basically an appeal to emotion. What it's not telling you is that basically all rifles are more powerful than most handguns. The focus is kept on the AR15 because it's clearly an evil weapon that looks scary. Why does the US Military (and many allies) use the M16 family of machine guns? They're relatively low recoil and they're actually not very effective at killing. They are great at causing wounds. Kill one soldier in battle and you take one soldier out of the fight. Wound one soldier and you take three out of the fight because two others are needed to care for the wounded one.

    Just so you know, the media deliberately wants you to think that "Assault Weapon" is a machine gun and therefore a weapon of war. They started this programming back in the 80's when the reporters would say "semi-automatic assault weapon" and then cut to video showing a full-auto machine gun. Machine guns have been HEAVILY regulated in the US since 1934. Legally owned machine guns have only been used ONCE in the commission of a crime. The background checks are very extensive, the weapons are very expensive, and the tax stamp needed is also not cheap.

    Long guns (which includes rifles and shotguns) are less of a problem, in actual numbers (and statistically speaking too), than common household tools (or even bare hands) in murders every year. The numbers are so low that they often don't break down that category into anything more specific. Because "Assault Weapon" is a media term and legal definitions vary from state to state (only 7 states "care" to define this) and because they're all just semi-auto rifles anyway, they're all reported in a "rifle" category that includes common hunting and target rifles when it is broken out into rifle/shotgun categories.
  3. by   nehneh14
    Quote from kidzcare
    I'm not sure what you mean by protraction of religious freedom? People can practice any religion they want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others (i.e. refusing to issue a marriage license or bake a wedding cake to a gay couple because it is against your religious beliefs is against the law. If one cannot bring themselves to do those things, then they need to have a job where they do not encounter those situations)

    I have not shot an AR-15 but I have shot a semi-automatic gun. The video from the classroom at Parkland was 6 seconds long and has at least 20 gunshots. There is NO WAY I could have fired the semi-automatic I did at that rate.

    Here is a surgeon's account of treating wounds from an AR-15: What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body – BGR

    It is not the same. Not even close. Please do the research yourself before recommending that others do so.
    Whew. Thank you for this. After I read the comment to which you've responded, and read it again, and then picked my jaw off the floor, I decided I just didn't have the energy to respond. You responded perfectly. I'm always shocked when a nurse, to whom I usually grant the benefit of the doubt that the ability to think critically exists, exposes themselves as having such uninformed and emotionally based beliefs. I think of us as educators as well as care givers, and views like those expressed cheapen our credibility as professionals.
    Last edit by nehneh14 on Mar 16
  4. by   nehneh14
    Quote from OldDude
    ""
    Luke 23:34, Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. Amen
    Oh, people who have guns around children know exactly what they're doing. They just don't care about anyone but themselves. An incredible inability or refusal to acknowledge the big picture and think about what's best for humanity, vs. what they consider best for the individual. It's a powerfully selfish and myopic way to exist. Father forgive them, indeed.
  5. by   kidzcare
    Quote from akulahawkRN
    Please do some research yourself too. There are semi-auto rifles that are far more powerful than the AR-15 (and clones), yet those aren't anywhere near as hated. You say you have shot these kinds of firearms before, yet not at the same speed. That's very likely a limitation on your own experience or lack thereof and local range rules. If you're looking to shoot very accurately you don't normally shoot fast. If you don't care about accuracy, fast is easy.

    None of the magazines the Parkland shooter used had a capacity greater than 10 rounds, he just had a LOT of magazines.

    That link you shared? It's basically an appeal to emotion. What it's not telling you is that basically all rifles are more powerful than most handguns. The focus is kept on the AR15 because it's clearly an evil weapon that looks scary. Why does the US Military (and many allies) use the M16 family of machine guns? They're relatively low recoil and they're actually not very effective at killing. They are great at causing wounds. Kill one soldier in battle and you take one soldier out of the fight. Wound one soldier and you take three out of the fight because two others are needed to care for the wounded one.

    Just so you know, the media deliberately wants you to think that "Assault Weapon" is a machine gun and therefore a weapon of war. They started this programming back in the 80's when the reporters would say "semi-automatic assault weapon" and then cut to video showing a full-auto machine gun. Machine guns have been HEAVILY regulated in the US since 1934. Legally owned machine guns have only been used ONCE in the commission of a crime. The background checks are very extensive, the weapons are very expensive, and the tax stamp needed is also not cheap.

    Long guns (which includes rifles and shotguns) are less of a problem, in actual numbers (and statistically speaking too), than common household tools (or even bare hands) in murders every year. The numbers are so low that they often don't break down that category into anything more specific. Because "Assault Weapon" is a media term and legal definitions vary from state to state (only 7 states "care" to define this) and because they're all just semi-auto rifles anyway, they're all reported in a "rifle" category that includes common hunting and target rifles when it is broken out into rifle/shotgun categories.
    I have done my research. I make sure that I read up on anything that I am passionate about otherwise I would not be able to form a coherent thought on it.

    Why would an appeal to emotion be a bad thing? It's not. Humans are emotional beings and that guides the decisions we make. When it doesn't guide someone's decisions, that person is defined as a sociopath.

    The reason the AR-15 is specified by so many is because it is the weapon of choice for many mass shooters. I know that there are deadlier weapons and I know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Even if I didn't know the difference, you have not invalidated any argument against these rapid-fire, bullet-filled killing machines by using semantics. Using the exact right terminology does not stop people from dying.
  6. by   kidzcare
    Quote from nehneh14
    Whew. Thank you for this. After I read the comment to which you've responded, and read it again, and then picked my jaw off the floor, I decided I just didn't have the energy to respond. You responded perfectly. I'm always shocked when a nurse, to whom I usually grant the benefit of the doubt that the ability to think critically exists, exposes themselves as having such uninformed and emotionally based beliefs. I think of us as educators as well as care givers, and views like those expressed cheapen our credibility as professionals.
    Thank you
  7. by   vetpharmtech
    Quote from MrNurse(x2)
    For the record, I am not a gun owner. I believe owning a gun for protection means that I should be able to value my (and my family's) life above another and lethally protect my family. My eternity is secured in Christ, the chance that someone who enters my home has that relationship is slim to none. I can not condemn someone to hell by denying them that chance to develop that relationship, so I choose to not own a gun. That doesn't mean that I feel guns are bad (obviously). I am a Constitutionalist, I fear what is happening to our sacred document, look at "hate speech", how long until your beliefs end up on that list? Look at the protraction of religious freedom in this country, how long before your beliefs are persecuted? AR15's are not any deadlier than other semi automatic guns, a little research will educate you. Knee jerk legislation normally protracts our liberties, look at post 911. Think long and hard before you want government control. Google Venezuela, they are eating their pets.
    Are you implying that prayers are prohibited, therefore religious beliefs are persecuted?

    You Christians always want it both way: you want the Lord's prayer recited in school and you demonize non-Christian prayers in the same school.

    Christian extremists disrupt Hindu Senate invocation - YouTube

    I guess this is what you want as a constitutionalist, isn't it? The first amendment is only preserved for Christians, exactly like Roy Moore wanted.

    One day, when a tefillah, a salah, a mantra, . . ., is also allowed and the Lord's prayer is prohibited, I will be the first person who fights on your side. Until that day happens, please don't attempt to make yourself a victim when people of your faith victimize other groups.
  8. by   akulahawkRN
    Quote from kidzcare
    I have done my research. I make sure that I read up on anything that I am passionate about otherwise I would not be able to form a coherent thought on it.

    Why would an appeal to emotion be a bad thing? It's not. Humans are emotional beings and that guides the decisions we make. When it doesn't guide someone's decisions, that person is defined as a sociopath.

    The reason the AR-15 is specified by so many is because it is the weapon of choice for many mass shooters. I know that there are deadlier weapons and I know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Even if I didn't know the difference, you have not invalidated any argument against these rapid-fire, bullet-filled killing machines by using semantics. Using the exact right terminology does not stop people from dying.
    The only "rapid fire, bullet-filled killing machines" that I am aware of happen to be machine guns. These are full-auto, not semi-auto. The AR-clones aren't weapons of war. The M16/M4 weapons are... and while it is possible to legally own them, they're so expensive that nobody uses legal machine guns in crimes. You will never find an AR-15 clone adopted for general issue/use by the military. They don't do what the military needs infantry rifles to do.

    As to why these rifles are frequently used by mass shooters, you should already know this if you've done your research: AR-clones are the most popular rifle type sold in the United States. How was the Parkland shooter able to shoot so many people? The SRO knew early on that all the shooting was going on in one particular building and he refused to enter the building to engage the threat and he told others to stay away.

    There was another school shooting the other day, in Maryland I do believe... and two students were injured and the shooter is dead. Why? The SRO immediately responded and engaged the shooter.

    We might not have lost 17 students that day had the Parkland, Florida SRO done his job.

    As to the "appeal to emotion" I would remind you that an appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy. I'm not saying that emotion is a bad thing, far from it. What I am saying is that when you make decisions based purely on an emotional basis, regardless of the facts, you often end up making very poor decisions.
  9. by   kidzcare
    Quote from akulahawkRN
    The only "rapid fire, bullet-filled killing machines" that I am aware of happen to be machine guns. These are full-auto, not semi-auto. The AR-clones aren't weapons of war. The M16/M4 weapons are... and while it is possible to legally own them, they're so expensive that nobody uses legal machine guns in crimes. You will never find an AR-15 clone adopted for general issue/use by the military. They don't do what the military needs infantry rifles to do.

    As to why these rifles are frequently used by mass shooters, you should already know this if you've done your research: AR-clones are the most popular rifle type sold in the United States. How was the Parkland shooter able to shoot so many people? The SRO knew early on that all the shooting was going on in one particular building and he refused to enter the building to engage the threat and he told others to stay away.

    There was another school shooting the other day, in Maryland I do believe... and two students were injured and the shooter is dead. Why? The SRO immediately responded and engaged the shooter.

    We might not have lost 17 students that day had the Parkland, Florida SRO done his job.

    As to the "appeal to emotion" I would remind you that an appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy. I'm not saying that emotion is a bad thing, far from it. What I am saying is that when you make decisions based purely on an emotional basis, regardless of the facts, you often end up making very poor decisions.
    This video was taken inside the Parkland shooting. It is 6 seconds long and I count 18-20 gunshots. I absolutely call that rapid-fire.
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    The AR-15 and clones are popular because they are light weight, fire quickly, and have little recoil. The NRA even has cutsie little sayings on their write-up about it- May the pew-pew be with you (adorable!) and suggests "making it cooler" with a silencer.

    NRA Blog | Why the AR-15 is America's Most Popular Rifle

    There was another school shooting in Maryland. Very different from other shootings. The shooter had a handgun and, although details are still emerging, it seems he had specific targets in mind. So instead of pumping bullets into herds of students, it looks like he had finished what he started. I am not excusing the SRO in FL for his actions, but we have no way of knowing if the SRO in Maryland would have willingly walked into open gunfire. No one can know unless they have been in that situation.

    sidenote- pointing out logical fallacies is, in itself, a logical fallacy (red herring).

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