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RNs tell your hospitals to hire new grads

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by DedHedRN DedHedRN (Member) Member

DedHedRN has 6 years experience and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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You are reading page 6 of RNs tell your hospitals to hire new grads. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

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You're plan is faulty. A supply side surplus of nurses will occur no matter which nurse, new or experienced, gets hired as long as the ratio of nurses available to positions available keeps growing, and thus deflating wages.

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SummitRN has 5 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in ICU.

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How many of you unemployed new grads have gone to the extreme of applying in remote underserved areas (Alaska or one of the reservations for example) or the military to have a job?

If you are not willing to uproot, change your lifestyle, go to a less desirable location you are not truly desperate.

I did that early in my nursing career to gain the type of training I wanted (as a single parent, far from family) and have been able to continue working as a traveler throughout this downturn precisely because of willingness to go wherever the jobs may be.

Harsh words, yes, but think it over.

First, military nursing requires a BSN from an appropriately accredited school (or an RN and a bachelors degree in something else). These folks are less likely to be desperate for employment.

Second, military nursing has a TON of requirements that not everyone meets (including a maximum age for entry of 35).

Third, some branches of the military are competitive for nursing spots right now due to overstaffing.

You know, I am not an unemployed new grad, but a lot of people are either unable to uproot (eg employed spouse), unable to serve in the uniformed services, or view moving to the end of nowwhere as less desirable than working at Walmart. For those whom radical relocation or serving in the military is an option, good on them if they choose it.

I can say that if my only choices to get a job as an RN were to move to a Native American reservation in Nevada, Pt. Barrow Alaska, or go to Iraq in uniform for 4 years, then I'd take a job in a different profession because those things aren't for me MORE than being an RN is for me. Everyone has their own priorities. If a giant flashing sign was placed in front of all RN schools stating that getting a job required moving to the Louisiana swamps or the mountains of Afghanistan, I think there would no longer be an overabundance of applicants. ;)

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jammin246RN has 6 years experience and specializes in Med-surg, ER, agency, rehab, oc health..

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I figured I would throw my 2c in.... It's a buyer's/employer's market these days for everything. In every recession daddy gets laid off, mom which has an RN goes back to work... or visa versa lol. As an employer it makes every bit of sense to hire a nurse with some experience then a nurse with no experience. No precepting, just orientation. Plus most times better patient care since the experienced nurse many times knows what to look for. However when the economy picks up and it will, hospitals will lose these nurses that came back to the field d/t their husbands/wives were out of work. This translates into a nursing shortage, in addition to that like one poster stated, the number of elderly people is on the rise, so it will hit hospitals with a double whammy. Also if you look at the average age of nurses in the US you notice that schools really aren't keeping up with the true demand. Our ages as a whole for nurses are rising. This means that for every say 9 nurses the school produces 10 nurses are getting ready to retire. Add to that, many nurses are still working past retirement age because their stocks have taken a dump, but once they rebound they will be set for retirement. To put it a little bit into perspective... in TX not long ago there was a real shortage of RNs, hospitals were hiring LPNs in every nursing level in the hospital... even the ICU. But as the economy has taken a dump, hospitals can be very choosy about who they hire, and the LPNs got dumped on. Some LPNs which had worked at some of these hospitals for 15+ years were kicked out the door. It goes in cycles

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nursel56 has 25+ years experience and specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

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It seems to me that whenever I read a thread like this, we're lacking the perspective of those entities that actually control the purse strings, and quite frankly seem to be on a separate but parallel track, and that is (in the US) a group of for-profit hospitals and insurance companies that while we dither and bicker amongst ourselves and the people representing the views of think tanks, academic institutions and niche advocacy groups, the people who hold most of the cards are busily figuring out how to chip away at our function until we have one BSN supervising a cadre of specialized techs who often are paid minimum wage. Nobody ever talks about that trend in healthcare, and I think it shows a certain amount of tunnel vision that will turn around and bite us in the backside. So, if we were inclined to tell management to hire new grads, well I believe the best we could hope to acheive is a patronizing smile that really says, "how quaint".

We give our opinions, they crunch numbers. We talk about the relative merits of an RN taking anthropology or sociology, they are busy figuring out how to hire the cheapest workforce while keeping mortality rates at an "acceptable" level. We argue about . . anything and everything and I guess that suits the corporate bean counters just fine. They are conducting focus groups to find out what to tell you to say to your patients to give them that warm and fuzzy feeling.

I know about the trend toward Magnet and the all BSN workforce. It's been around for a long time. Yesterday I was reading a "status report" written in 1996 that was pretty much identical to those we see today. Out here on the west coast, there is less of a toehold with the Magnet hospital movement, or "ADN need not apply" signs.

The fact is, that on a national level, nurses have no collective bargaining power. I should probably hasten to add that I believe LPNs, LVNs, diploma RNs, Associate Degree RNs, and BSN+ RNs are all nurses. I know not everyone agrees with that. If we were unified, maybe this thread wouldn't have ruffled feathers as much as it has. Maybe if we had a single entity negotiating for us, the old nurses could help design new grad residency programs and have input into pay scales. I live in a dream world, I know. But I'm not crazy, I'm "eccentric". :)

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eriksoln has 15 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.

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If I could work for minimum wage at wal-mart, or doing what I spent many years training to do, what do you think I will choose?

As for it costing X amount of dollars to train a new grad nurse, if they were working for minimum wage, that figure would shrink considerably.

Was I not clear in my original post? The point was, if new grads are increasing every year exponentially, and they are not being employed, they will be induced to work for less, perhaps even minimum wage. That in itself will cause more experienced nurses to lose employment, because as we all know the mighty dollar is king. Hospitals will see the benefit of hiring people for less and will let nurses go who demand more.

So, to avoid all this unpleasantness, it would behoove experienced nurses to look out for their jobs and wages now by encouraging hospitals to hire new grad nurses, before it gets to that state of things.

That is pretty much what happened to electricians.....field got oversaturated and wages plumeted. I'm no economics expert though and I'm not convinced thats how it will happen with nursing. Why?

Well, you have to remember, as another poster stated, training nurses is very expensive. They also pointed out that "retention" was poor. That, to me, is the key factor. Retention of RNs is terrible (looking at it from an administrator's POV). Some GNs quit the career path as a whole after the first year, even less make it beyond year #5 (the magical year where you are truly a nurse according to many). Many nurses job hop from one hospital to another (meaning, hospital A pays to train you and hospital B gets you in your prime).

Its not like that, or at least not to such an extreme, with other fields. Take electricians for example. They field was easily saturated because......most people graduating with said degree did not want out of the field a year later. Maybe after wages dropped some did, but most stayed. Nursing does not offer the type of work environment that allows itself to be completely saturated. New grads, yes, are having trouble finding work, but in other fields NO ONE, experienced/new/high paid/low paid............NO ONE....is finding work. I could change hospitals right now if I wished to, just don't have any reason to. We are a little better off than most other career choices right now.

In short, nursing scares off enough of its possible work candidates to avoid being saturated. People get in the field, see the work conditions and find out what its really like and move on. If people are "moving on" at the current wages.......seems to me they would be more inclined to do so making min. wage.

I don't see the whole scenario you painted happening TBH. I'm not an expert though, so.......guess we will see.

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I figured I would throw my 2c in.... It's a buyer's/employer's market these days for everything. In every recession daddy gets laid off, mom which has an RN goes back to work... or visa versa lol. As an employer it makes every bit of sense to hire a nurse with some experience then a nurse with no experience. No precepting, just orientation. Plus most times better patient care since the experienced nurse many times knows what to look for. However when the economy picks up and it will, hospitals will lose these nurses that came back to the field d/t their husbands/wives were out of work. This translates into a nursing shortage, in addition to that like one poster stated, the number of elderly people is on the rise, so it will hit hospitals with a double whammy. Also if you look at the average age of nurses in the US you notice that schools really aren't keeping up with the true demand. Our ages as a whole for nurses are rising. This means that for every say 9 nurses the school produces 10 nurses are getting ready to retire. Add to that, many nurses are still working past retirement age because their stocks have taken a dump, but once they rebound they will be set for retirement. To put it a little bit into perspective... in TX not long ago there was a real shortage of RNs, hospitals were hiring LPNs in every nursing level in the hospital... even the ICU. But as the economy has taken a dump, hospitals can be very choosy about who they hire, and the LPNs got dumped on. Some LPNs which had worked at some of these hospitals for 15+ years were kicked out the door. It goes in cycles

This is all true...I am a data guy. The data simply doesnt support a sustainable "overabundance" of nurses. Quite the contrary...a RADICAL/awful shortage is looming large. Its not going to be funny.

Check out the birth rate last 100 years: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html

The people that came back to work as RNs because of the economy like you said dont want to work...they were forced to work. I have heard several of these nurses complain recently about hating their jobs and wanting to retire stat. They will all push the eject button as soon as they can....or they will code/pass away on the job they will get so old lol....no one can work forever. The median age of RNs is too damn high lol just like the rent. Something is going to give and soon.

Please stop with the RN schools "pumping out" new grads...they are getting 1/3 of what they need to care for the amount of old people we will have. Unfortunately everyone is looking to hospital jobs but the greatest growth area will be outpatient care, LTC and home health, the later being huge - deal with it.

The military is supremely selective these days...it would be easier to get into a hospital based on the standards the military has. You will be screened based on BSN, height/weight, amount of experience (almost not branches take someone right out of school), background check, etc. Right now the Army Reserve for example, is full for the year.

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MisterSimba specializes in New Grad.

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There's actually quite a few new grad Nursing Jobs across the country, including new grad residencies that may offer as much as several months worth of training. The problem is that there are usually only a dozen or so positions available in each of these programs, and several hundred applicants applying.

I don't understand why the OP is mad at experienced nurses. None of this is their fault, and I'm sure that most of them are very encouraging and supportive when precepting or working with new grads.

I'm a new grad myself. I graduated from a BSN program at the end of July and passed the boards in August. I've applied at dozens of hospitals over the past few months, and don't have a nursing job yet. I haven't even been able to get a job as a nursing assistant, so I've been working full-time at a preschool since October, and living at my parents' house since I can't afford my own place on $13/hour. Also, this way, when I do get a job, I can just pick up and move to wherever the job is.

I've had BLS and ACLS certification for a while, and recently also got PALS and NRP certification, so hopefully that will help.

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DedHedRN has 6 years experience and specializes in Medical Surgical.

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Thanks for all your wonderful comments. I really appreciate those of you that you all took the time to really consider the idea that I threw out there and formulate an answer and were nice and kept open lines of communication going. You girls are the best.

I am sorry that a few of you seemed to take it wrong and got upset and started personally attacking me. If I made you angry, I didn't mean to.

I just see that about 90% of my graduating class is unemployed and I was thinking about what was going to happen to all of us. How many of us would leave nursing altogether before we ever get employed?

I apologize for thinking that nurses could change things on a grassroots level by talking about the situation to their management, and sowing the seeds of idea out there about the current state of things. I don't think nurses feel empowered enough to make any changes, and that's sad.

I am not set in stone in my ideas; I am totally open to change. I will probably take some of your advice, and other I will not. I just hope that somehow I can keep my sense of self worth, and my voice throughout my nursing career, because I am never going to stop wanting to change things for the better.

At least I got myself and other people thinking.

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llerkl has 39 years experience as a ADN and specializes in Non-Oncology Infusion currently.

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I would be HAPPY to encourage my employer to hire new grads......but currently there is the issue of "down staffing" occurring at the teaching facility where I am employed. Nurses who are gainfully employed, are not getting their hours due to lower than anticipated patient census over the past 6 months or more. Work is beginning, to align nurses from low census units TO units experiencing overtime situations and over appointment work hours =AKA floating. Unfortunately, there are no job postings here. I feel bad for new grads out there.......when I graduated I could have been employed anywhere. Things are very different now. I don't know what the answer is. :eek:

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nursel56 has 25+ years experience and specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

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They will all push the eject button as soon as they can....or they will code/pass away on the job they will get so old lol....no one can work forever. The median age of RNs is too damn high lol just like the rent. Something is going to give and soon.

Sorry for the OT post but that is just too hilarious-- "something's got to give" because why? Old nurses are all roaming around within the castle walls while new grads are wheeling their trebuchets into position after years of seige warfare? I have some bad news for you. We're in there running laps, playing chess, chugging our carrot juice, and faithfully taking our Boniva. But seriously the way some new grads talk about us gives me the unmistakable feeling of being watched by a vulture. I plan to carry an AED with me at all times, so if I code on the job I'll hope a bystander will zap me, it's pretty obvious my youthful colleagues will step over me.

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2 Articles; 5,682 Posts; 50,714 Profile Views

I would never, ever allow myself or a loved one to set foot in a hospital which paid their nurses minimum wage... and this was true even before I graduated from nursing school 18 months ago.

Minimum wage workers rarely value what they're doing. I don't care too much if they get my order wrong or overcook my burger... that can be easily fixed. Injuring somebody due to a careless error, however, is not so easily remedied.

The problem here is with the schools who are pumping out so many unneeded nurses and with the new grads themselves who foolishly jumped into a program believing all the obviously false "nursing shortage" crap.

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2 Articles; 5,682 Posts; 50,714 Profile Views

Please stop with the RN schools "pumping out" new grads...they are getting 1/3 of what they need to care for the amount of old people we will have.
Again, that's speculation which may... or may not... prove correct. You've mixed your tenses in your thesis sentence: "are getting" and "will need" is suppositional, not factual.

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