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Pennsylvania RN with first dui help with PNAP

Recovery   (1,097 Views | 12 Replies)

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I received my first DUI in October 2019 got pulled over for headlight out BrAC 0.137. BON notified me of PNAP program if diagnosed with substance use disorder. I had evaluation, UDS and blood peth test per recommendations. UDS was dilute and positive peth level about 175. Psychologist diagnosed me with mild alcohol use recommended me for individual and professional group. I have not received paperwork from BON requiring me to stop working using my RN license yet or the PNAP program contract. I currently work in homecare and will not be able to continue employment while in the program which is 3 years minimum. I am at a loss of what to do. I’ve been a nurse so long I am so anxious considering the cost of the program and not having a job. Looking for any advice regarding any thoughts on non-medical positions, nursing positions I can work while in the program. I have not drank since 11/24/19 and will not drink I am not an alcoholic but I did drink more than a normal person (if anyone knows what normal is). I believe it is unfair to treat a dilute urine as a positive and my high peth test as I have a problem when I was honest told psychologist that I drank more after Dui than I normally would but have not drank since PNAP case manager told me not to drink throughout the whole process. I find it hard to believe that nurses are subjected to such an injustice that we are held to the highest standards. I had no idea the repercussions on nurses who get a DUI. I don’t know if I should get an attorney that specializes in working with the BON or just save my money (that I don’t have) for testing and therapies?? Any help or input or information would be helpful. Thanks

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Cgritz77 has 6 years experience as a RN.

32 Posts; 683 Profile Views

Hello,

I am in PNAP for the same thing. First time DUI. This is definitely not fair at all. I've been in it since mid-September. It really does suck. I have not worked for almost a whole year. Sorry I can't help you on the non nursing job front. I was also thrown out of my BSN program when I only had 2 classes left and told to return once I finished with PNAP, which may not be until another almost 3 years. 3 years is the standard amount of time you will be placed in a program in PA. The board requested all my medical records, which I had to send or else my license would be suspended. I have a history of anxiety and depression and those things were used against me in determining that I would need to be in a program. I am not an alcoholic either, but I had to succumb to attending 3 AA meetings a week and also checking in with RecoveryTrek M-F to see if I have a random urine test. The initial shock of being placed into a program is the most disheartening thing and most of your dignity is stripped away from you. My advice is to spare no expense on a good attorney, who I can give you the name of. I didn't use him, but I wish I had. Join the Facebook group "Nurses in Assistance Programs" for help and support. It has truly helped me. Once you are there, you can talk openly without judgment about what's going on and get the support you need. Mention you are from Pa or mention my allnurses.com username on there so I can send you a message or something. I can't put names on here. Best of luck! 🙂

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102 Posts; 2,453 Profile Views

If you went through a Lpn-Rn Bridge program and held or now hold a Lpn license, believe yiu can work on that license. Or if you had/have a Cna license, likewise you can work on that license. The DON of our Nursing school program told me 30 years ago, even after being an RN with her Master's degree for decades, she still maintained her Cna and Lpn licenses so in case she was ever sued as an RN she could always work on her other license(s). Sage advice and perfectly legal...

Edited by worldtraveler

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13 Posts; 130 Profile Views

Thank you! I unfortunately I do not have my LPN. I was a CNA before I became a nurse. Great advice I’ll definitely have to look into whether I can fall back on my CNA. I appreciate any advice I’m losing my stuffing right now! Thank you again

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7 hours ago, Cgritz77 said:

Hello,

I am in PNAP for the same thing. First time DUI. This is definitely not fair at all. I've been in it since mid-September. It really does suck. I have not worked for almost a whole year. Sorry I can't help you on the non nursing job front. I was also thrown out of my BSN program when I only had 2 classes left and told to return once I finished with PNAP, which may not be until another almost 3 years. 3 years is the standard amount of time you will be placed in a program in PA. The board requested all my medical records, which I had to send or else my license would be suspended. I have a history of anxiety and depression and those things were used against me in determining that I would need to be in a program. I am not an alcoholic either, but I had to succumb to attending 3 AA meetings a week and also checking in with RecoveryTrek M-F to see if I have a random urine test. The initial shock of being placed into a program is the most disheartening thing and most of your dignity is stripped away from you. My advice is to spare no expense on a good attorney, who I can give you the name of. I didn't use him, but I wish I had. Join the Facebook group "Nurses in Assistance Programs" for help and support. It has truly helped me. Once you are there, you can talk openly without judgment about what's going on and get the support you need. Mention you are from Pa or mention my allnurses.com username on there so I can send you a message or something. I can't put names on here. Best of luck! 🙂

First of all I’m so sorry you are in the PNAP program it is unbelievable that your pmh is being used against you. I’m sorry your life and Bachelor’s program is now on hold. Yes I have heard it is actually longer than 3 years cause the BON takes a while longer to sign contract & then more time to reinstate your license. I hope your time in the program goes by fast and smoothly. It’s horrible especially cause you haven’t been able to work. I was told to have an evaluation by an approved care provider I chose one of the two places and spent almost $300 for the psychologist to tell me that I have a mild alcohol use disorder largely in part to my lab results. I am on the fence about an attorney because I don’t have the money I’m already in debt and will probably be losing my license soon. Also the nurses at group said save your money it’s not worth it. I have read only one nurse say she had a lawyer and he got the BON to close her case so she didn’t have to go into the program. I understand that I chose to drive while intoxicated and feel I should pay for my crime. However, I was already sentenced in court by the law. I received probation, fines, highway safety classes and driver’s license suspension. Now this!! I will look into fb group thank you for your input I appreciate any info! Losing it but not gonna drink just gonna prove myself!! Thanks again 

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ruby_jane has 10 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in ICU/community health/school nursing.

4 Followers; 2,739 Posts; 11,327 Profile Views

I wonder if @SpankedInPittsburgh might weigh in here.

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Hi everyone

I've been away from the forum for a few days so I apologize for the late response.  I've been in PNAP for years now and I will tell you upfront I have nothing good to say about the program or experience so if you are looking for some "the program saved my life", born again, twelve step loving Pollyanna land nonsense skip this post.  I will share my experience with you folks new to this purgatory because I've been where you are at.

Ok first things first.  This program is nonsense and of the many, many nurses I've met in the program exactly one might have been helped.  This is an overbroad program that has two purposes.  First to punish you. The worst enemy of a nurse is another nurse.  We rejoice in seeing others fail and copious amount of pain inflicted upon them.  PNAP was created by nurses to inflict pain on other nurses.  Second purpose is to separate you and your insurance carrier from as much money as humanly possible.  Contrary to the PNAP website this program is an economic disaster on anybody stuck in it.   In my three plus years I figure between lost wages, copays and out of pocket expenses the program has cost me a little over $60k in my three plus years and my insurance many more thousands of dollars.  Ok that's the reality.  Why did I start with this monologue of doom?  Because it's the simple truth and you need to accept it and not descend into self loathing.  In short you don't have to love this poop sandwich but you got to eat it if you are gonna keep your license.

The first year is the worst.  You most likely won't be able to work until you do 90 idiotic 12 step meetings in 90 days.  You also have to complete "treatment" which maybe in and or outpatient which in my case lasted four or five months and only stopped when my insurance company refused to pay for more.  No working during this time of bleeding money coming from God knows where.  When they let you go back to work you can't work in critical care, the er or anywhere without an on-site supervisor for a longer period of time of about a year.  At this point most nurses who get gainful employment do so in long term care or dialysis.  Most hate it but it keeps a roof over the head and food in the stomach.  During this time you also have to attend "nurse support groups" at first weekly then every two weeks and finally monthly that you have to pay for.  When you go to these meetings my advice is to sing the company song about how you love your new life, being sober, your sponsor. Blah blah blah....  Do not EVER share any real problems you maybe having staying sober because these meeting are not treatment and have no confidentiality in them.   Don't worry these are annoying and mostly simple whining sessions but harmless if expensive.

More tips.  Once you have accepted the reality of the black hole you are in you have a simple choice.  First you can tell the BON to pound their generous offer up their collective rear ends.  This may sound like a foolhardy choice but the harsh truth is if will not or cannit comply completely for whatever reason you will not make it through.  Can't afford your pee test?  It's like in the movie goodfellas "blank u pay me", gonna get fired because u gotta go to treatment "blank u go".  Well u get the idea.  If you decide you are gonna do this the only way out is complete compliance.  You can hate this programs and the "treatment professional" attached to it as I do but you need to stay under the radar and not miss or worse fail your pre test.  Pay off the costs that you cannot afford and be vigilant daily about staying within the rules.  Fail a pee test?  You start at day one.  I've seen this "three year" program take close to a decade. 

Finally it's not a three year program.  It's more like a four year program because you are expected to comply immediately and completely.  However the BON and the PNAP folks can take as long as they want to process and approve your paperwork.

I truly wish you all luck.  I'm not trying to scare anybody.  I'm nothing special and I'm getting through this.  You can also.  It's miserable and nonsensical but if being a nurse is worth it to you (and it really better be worth it because this process will extract a bloody pound of flesh) then make the commitment and do it.  

Good luck all

Spanked

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beachbabe86 specializes in Oceanfront Living.

63 Posts; 250 Profile Views

can anyone please tell me what a dilute urine is?

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21 hours ago, SpankedInPittsburgh said:

Hi everyone

I've been away from the forum for a few days so I apologize for the late response.  I've been in PNAP for years now and I will tell you upfront I have nothing good to say about the program or experience so if you are looking for some "the program saved my life", born again, twelve step loving Pollyanna land nonsense skip this post.  I will share my experience with you folks new to this purgatory because I've been where you are at.

Ok first things first.  This program is nonsense and of the many, many nurses I've met in the program exactly one might have been helped.  This is an overbroad program that has two purposes.  First to punish you. The worst enemy of a nurse is another nurse.  We rejoice in seeing others fail and copious amount of pain inflicted upon them.  PNAP was created by nurses to inflict pain on other nurses.  Second purpose is to separate you and your insurance carrier from as much money as humanly possible.  Contrary to the PNAP website this program is an economic disaster on anybody stuck in it.   In my three plus years I figure between lost wages, copays and out of pocket expenses the program has cost me a little over $60k in my three plus years and my insurance many more thousands of dollars.  Ok that's the reality.  Why did I start with this monologue of doom?  Because it's the simple truth and you need to accept it and not descend into self loathing.  In short you don't have to love this poop sandwich but you got to eat it if you are gonna keep your license.

The first year is the worst.  You most likely won't be able to work until you do 90 idiotic 12 step meetings in 90 days.  You also have to complete "treatment" which maybe in and or outpatient which in my case lasted four or five months and only stopped when my insurance company refused to pay for more.  No working during this time of bleeding money coming from God knows where.  When they let you go back to work you can't work in critical care, the er or anywhere without an on-site supervisor for a longer period of time of about a year.  At this point most nurses who get gainful employment do so in long term care or dialysis.  Most hate it but it keeps a roof over the head and food in the stomach.  During this time you also have to attend "nurse support groups" at first weekly then every two weeks and finally monthly that you have to pay for.  When you go to these meetings my advice is to sing the company song about how you love your new life, being sober, your sponsor. Blah blah blah....  Do not EVER share any real problems you maybe having staying sober because these meeting are not treatment and have no confidentiality in them.   Don't worry these are annoying and mostly simple whining sessions but harmless if expensive.

More tips.  Once you have accepted the reality of the black hole you are in you have a simple choice.  First you can tell the BON to pound their generous offer up their collective rear ends.  This may sound like a foolhardy choice but the harsh truth is if will not or cannit comply completely for whatever reason you will not make it through.  Can't afford your pee test?  It's like in the movie goodfellas "blank u pay me", gonna get fired because u gotta go to treatment "blank u go".  Well u get the idea.  If you decide you are gonna do this the only way out is complete compliance.  You can hate this programs and the "treatment professional" attached to it as I do but you need to stay under the radar and not miss or worse fail your pre test.  Pay off the costs that you cannot afford and be vigilant daily about staying within the rules.  Fail a pee test?  You start at day one.  I've seen this "three year" program take close to a decade. 

Finally it's not a three year program.  It's more like a four year program because you are expected to comply immediately and completely.  However the BON and the PNAP folks can take as long as they want to process and approve your paperwork.

I truly wish you all luck.  I'm not trying to scare anybody.  I'm nothing special and I'm getting through this.  You can also.  It's miserable and nonsensical but if being a nurse is worth it to you (and it really better be worth it because this process will extract a bloody pound of flesh) then make the commitment and do it.  

Good luck all

Spanked

Spanked 

First of all sorry you have to go through this BS crooked program!! That being said I truly appreciate your straight forward and honest response. Im tired of people not being honest and having an ulterior motive for asking me questions. I don’t know who to trust. Purgatory is spot on!! Love the analogy!! I am going to contact an attorney in Philadelphia to see what my options are. I already had evaluation from PNAP approved provider, UDS and blood test with PEth level so I’m not sure if an attorney will help but I need to see for my own sanity. I find it hard to believe I was unable to find these attorneys until I googled nurse with mild alcohol use disorder!! I honestly looked before I had evaluation done and found nothing. Now I feel like everything I said is being used against me to make a diagnosis!!! Just frustrating and disheartening especially because now I’m on the radar and in this unjust system. I’m going to try my best to make the best informed decision. I definitely need all the luck, hopes, good vibes, prayers or whatever anyone can give me!! So thanks and I’m sure we’ll be chatting again.  

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12 hours ago, beachbabe86 said:

can anyone please tell me what a dilute urine is?

Beachbabe 

According to the provider I see a dilute urine is considered a positive drug screen for your drug of choice. Simply because it looks like you were drinking fluids to beat the UDS. However, It is usually dilute negative or dilute positive. I received a dilute negative but my provider said still positive for my drug of choice. 🤬 I’m trying to find out how much water and coffee or anything else that can make it dilute cause I’ll be getting tested again and don’t want the same result. I drink a lot of water and coffee for weight loss so I definitely need to find out. Hope my response helps you. 

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On 1/12/2020 at 1:10 PM, SpankedInPittsburgh said:

Hi everyone

I've been away from the forum for a few days so I apologize for the late response.  I've been in PNAP for years now and I will tell you upfront I have nothing good to say about the program or experience so if you are looking for some "the program saved my life", born again, twelve step loving Pollyanna land nonsense skip this post.  I will share my experience with you folks new to this purgatory because I've been where you are at.

Ok first things first.  This program is nonsense and of the many, many nurses I've met in the program exactly one might have been helped.  This is an overbroad program that has two purposes.  First to punish you. The worst enemy of a nurse is another nurse.  We rejoice in seeing others fail and copious amount of pain inflicted upon them.  PNAP was created by nurses to inflict pain on other nurses.  Second purpose is to separate you and your insurance carrier from as much money as humanly possible.  Contrary to the PNAP website this program is an economic disaster on anybody stuck in it.   In my three plus years I figure between lost wages, copays and out of pocket expenses the program has cost me a little over $60k in my three plus years and my insurance many more thousands of dollars.  Ok that's the reality.  Why did I start with this monologue of doom?  Because it's the simple truth and you need to accept it and not descend into self loathing.  In short you don't have to love this poop sandwich but you got to eat it if you are gonna keep your license.

The first year is the worst.  You most likely won't be able to work until you do 90 idiotic 12 step meetings in 90 days.  You also have to complete "treatment" which maybe in and or outpatient which in my case lasted four or five months and only stopped when my insurance company refused to pay for more.  No working during this time of bleeding money coming from God knows where.  When they let you go back to work you can't work in critical care, the er or anywhere without an on-site supervisor for a longer period of time of about a year.  At this point most nurses who get gainful employment do so in long term care or dialysis.  Most hate it but it keeps a roof over the head and food in the stomach.  During this time you also have to attend "nurse support groups" at first weekly then every two weeks and finally monthly that you have to pay for.  When you go to these meetings my advice is to sing the company song about how you love your new life, being sober, your sponsor. Blah blah blah....  Do not EVER share any real problems you maybe having staying sober because these meeting are not treatment and have no confidentiality in them.   Don't worry these are annoying and mostly simple whining sessions but harmless if expensive.

More tips.  Once you have accepted the reality of the black hole you are in you have a simple choice.  First you can tell the BON to pound their generous offer up their collective rear ends.  This may sound like a foolhardy choice but the harsh truth is if will not or cannit comply completely for whatever reason you will not make it through.  Can't afford your pee test?  It's like in the movie goodfellas "blank u pay me", gonna get fired because u gotta go to treatment "blank u go".  Well u get the idea.  If you decide you are gonna do this the only way out is complete compliance.  You can hate this programs and the "treatment professional" attached to it as I do but you need to stay under the radar and not miss or worse fail your pre test.  Pay off the costs that you cannot afford and be vigilant daily about staying within the rules.  Fail a pee test?  You start at day one.  I've seen this "three year" program take close to a decade. 

Finally it's not a three year program.  It's more like a four year program because you are expected to comply immediately and completely.  However the BON and the PNAP folks can take as long as they want to process and approve your paperwork.

I truly wish you all luck.  I'm not trying to scare anybody.  I'm nothing special and I'm getting through this.  You can also.  It's miserable and nonsensical but if being a nurse is worth it to you (and it really better be worth it because this process will extract a bloody pound of flesh) then make the commitment and do it.  

Good luck all

Spanked

Have you used an attorney? I’m curious how many have and if they helped or not? On the fence thinking attorney may be my best option.  I was “diagnosed” by PNAP approved provider with mild alcohol use disorder I do not have a drinking problem. Won’t be able to work as a nurse but still have to pay for sessions & testing. I work in home care have for over 5 years love my clients and families. Have great rapportwith my employer. I definitely will not be supervised there and not an option with the PNAP program. So I’ll be job searching with a Dui 14 year work history as a nurse and in the program plus I live in a small town not many job prospects. Ugh. So stressed decisions decisions 

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catsmeow1972 has 15 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in OR.

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On 1/13/2020 at 10:47 AM, Jhope41831 said:

Beachbabe 

According to the provider I see a dilute urine is considered a positive drug screen for your drug of choice. Simply because it looks like you were drinking fluids to beat the UDS. However, It is usually dilute negative or dilute positive. I received a dilute negative but my provider said still positive for my drug of choice. 🤬 I’m trying to find out how much water and coffee or anything else that can make it dilute cause I’ll be getting tested again and don’t want the same result. I drink a lot of water and coffee for weight loss so I definitely need to find out. Hope my response helps you. 

During my time, I developed the habit of doing the check in at 4am on the dot and if I had been summoned, I freaking held it till 6am and was there when the lab opened. Dilute, my a**. Coulda done a pregnancy test off of that. The touch of CKD (thank you years of anti depressants, etc.) that I have also probably helped. I managed to avoid ANY dilutes in 5 years. 

Needless to say, now that I’m able drink enough water to stay hydrated and so forth and not worry about this garbage, those renal numbers are much happier. 

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