Are Techs And RN's equal in managements eyes?

Specialties Operating Room

Published

I am new and this is my first post. I have been a surgical tech for 4yrs now, and work 3-11p at a Level One Trauma Center. Taking the evening shift, I became the sole staff employee on this shift, for 3yrs. (only traveling RN's were with me) Suffice to say, I was thrown in daily to some of the most difficult cases surgeons face. And I learned ALOT, about ALOT, and learned QUICK. I had no choice. If I didnt know exactly what each surgeon (albeit ortho, vascular, transplant, neuro, thoracic, plastics, general, etc.) wanted and needed....my experience with the surgeon (my ability to keep up, anticipate, and 'feel in sync' with him/her) wasnt going to be there, leading to frustration on their part and feeling inadequate on my part. So I took notes, read online about surgeries, studied procedure guides, asked alot of questions, and after 4yrs, I have developed a repoire of respect, unprecedented, with ALL of our surgeons (we have 25 OR suites). I am somewhat of an anamoly, as 99% of our techs work the day shift (or are forced to take off-shifts as part of their requirements) and most are uncomfortable outside of their speciality. Our hospital has lost 30 OR techs/nurses over the last 2yrs, to other hospitals, creating such a crisis that management called a meeting last year and urged ANYONE who got another offer, to come to them so they could counteroffer.

So now you have a background.

I have been reviewed yearly and have gotten small raises (.25 here, .40 there) I am at a point, where I feel I am WORTH MORE because of my versatility, my excellent repoire, and the fact that my managers have witnessed even the most demanding surgeons request me in their room.

I recently was 'approached' by another area hospital (whose employees work with us hourly and passed my name along), and was offered $2 more an hour. Now, I am COMFORTABLE working where I am and I dont WANT to leave. So I did what I remember management saying. I went to them.

I spoke with our HR nurse recruiter....who, told me that she was THE PERSON who made salary decisions, and was SO GLAD that I was coming to her before taking another offer and leaving.

By the end of the conversation, she told me that she had to get 'approval' from her supervisor (a mysterious person whos name HAS NEVER BEEN MENTIONED TO ANYONE, EVER)

BUT, she assured, she forsaw no problem (as the mystery person is quick to respond to these situations)

The next day, her story changed again.

Now, she confided in me, that the 'mystery person' had a biased opinion of my position, (which she said she disagreed with) IF I were an RN....it would be a different story. IF AN RN GETS A BETTER OFFER SOMEWHERE ELSE, THEY REACT IMMEDIATELY WITH AN EQUAL OR BETTER OFFER.

I was told that no 'TECH' had ever come to management with another offer. So, she compared my situation to a situation involving a Nurse Managers secretary, who asked for more money, and 'the mystery person' dragged it out for weeks, but eventually the secretary got her raise. Two days later, my OR director mentioned to me that he was getting alot of talk from 'suits and ties' about my plight, and that although what I was doing might help techs in the future, it probably wasnt going to help me. very strange.

A week later, not hearing anything (but assured I would), I called the HR recruiter, who told me my answer was no. But that they were 'looking into an across the board' change. I was now told that giving me a raise would throw the 'internal whatever' off. Something they couldnt do. (Did she forget she told me they DO THIS EVERYDAY for RN's?)

My plight here, is I was basically told flat out that because my position is not considered VALUABLE to administration, I can walk out the door.

"But we hope you will stay" was my goodbye.

Yes, I CAN walk and take another job, and might, but that isnt my POINT

IS THIS A TRUE CASE OF DISCRIMINATION? It certainly FEELS like it?

I know that to take it farther, will be my demise within the company.

I know how politics work. They'd crush me, deny they ever said anything discriminatory, and Id end up blacklisted from the community.

If anyone has experienced anything like this, or has any input, Id greatly appreciate it :rolleyes:

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RNs are viewed more highly because of their versatility and the ability to legally do things techs can't do. Techs just have less responsibility, especially from a legal standpoint and more important from a patient care standpoint. That's not to say techs aren't valuable though.

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Specializes in O.R., ED, M/S.

You are in a unique situation where you are always put into a position of authority ONLY because the travelers don't know the routine there. An RN will ALWAYS command more in everything because of their versatility. I work in an invironment where we ONLY use RNs because we have had no need for techs. All of our RNs scrub and circulate, no choice! I think they should make an exception for you because you essence run the evening shift. I am surprised though that they haven't hired an RN to be your regular partner. Says something for your administration. I think this "will throw something off" is just an excuse. The RN will always command a higher salary and there should be a significant gap between yours and theirs to where they can match the other places offer. This is only if the RN salary is where it should be and doesn't suck. This is situation that always comes up where someone is doing all the work and not being compensated for it. Unfortunately there are rules to be observed, state and federal, and this is one. You CAN'T be in charge over an RN no matter what someone tells you, at least in California. Other states have bizarre and wierd rules which are no exceptable in my book so you never know. I know this can be very frustrating and maybe you would be better off somewhere where someone else is taking all the heat. Good luck. Mike

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
RNs are viewed more highly because of their versatility and the ability to legally do things techs can't do. Techs just have less responsibility, especially from a legal standpoint and more important from a patient care standpoint. That's not to say techs aren't valuable though.

Techs are very valuable. RN's have a college degree and therefore are viewed differently.

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Surgical techs often have associate degrees.

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Specializes in O.R., ED, M/S.
Surgical techs often have associate degrees.

Yes you are right but there is quite a difference between a "certification" and a state mandated license. Mike

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It is management that brings in ORTs in the first place. It is an economically feasible solution.

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I have experienced something similar to you. So before I tell you my experience. I will inform you of my background. I am currently the ethics and compliance officer for my company. I have been scrubbing for 4 years. I went to college when I finished high school. I have a double degree in computer programming and music marketing. After college I decided I wanted to go to scrub school instead of getting an office job. I chose scrubbing for a couple of reasons. The first and foremost reason was simply I didn't want to spend another 4 years in college getting a nursing degree. Or spend 8 years getting my MD. It had nothing to do with me not being able to do it. Anyone can become a nurse or doctor. Its all in how you choose to apply yourself. Or choosing to give up something else in order to spend the extra time in college.

About a year after I finished my clinicals. I decided to take the overnigh shift at my trauma center. It was great for me. I had 4 days off in the middle of the week. Then worked the weekends overnight. The biggest problem I had was that the charge nurse would always call in sick. So this meant that many nights I had no one in the OR with me. Simply due to the fact that their just wasn't anyone. They did try to put someone in the sleep room, but that seldomly worked out. So I had to make the calls. *Now before anyone chimes in about how this is wrong. I had no choice in the matter. Their was no one their, and no one would come in. Period* I didn't really care. Most of the time the charge nurse would ask me what to do anyway. So I was used to having to make the calls. Even on nights when there was someone there til 11. They would always hand me the phones and have me take charge over everything. Even the trauma docs would depend on me over everyone else. It felt good to be appreciated, but something about it wasn't right to me. So after talking to some coworkers they suggested that I put charge time down on my time sheet. So I thought hey why not. Well I got pulled into the office and told that I couldn't put that down on my time sheet. I asked why not? I was the one who was left to make all the calls. The answer I got was that the charge is in the sleep room. I said. Ok, thats fine, but what about the times when there hasn't been a charge in the sleep room. I didn't get an answer out of that question. So I blew it off. I thought fine then. I know I am working hard and the docs appreciate what I have done. I did get screwed a lot at this point. When I first went on the shift. I didn't get the same differential that RN's or some of the others scrubs were getting. So I wrote a note to my boss explaining the legal obligations that she has to pay me the same as everyone else is getting. That did work out to my benefit. When review time came around I got a 2.5% raise. Which felt like an insult. I had busted my ass trying to keep things in order at that facility.

To make a long story short I took another job with about a 6 dollar raise, and since then I have taken about another 3 dollars in raises since then. The hardest thing about leaving your facility is leaving your friends. Everytime I go back there and work people ask me to come back. I simply tell them I would love to work with them again, but I can't deal with the way the place is managed. It is better that I am not an employee for that particular facility.

As much as it might suck to leave your friends, maybe its time you do whats in your best interest.

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I guess I am biased on the topic or RN's and techs but this is a classical example of someone not trained to do a job being allowed to go outside their expertise and now wanting the same pay and recognition as the RN. The first poster is a competent scrub tech. Obviously knows their stuff about SCRUBBING. The second poster I took an interest in with the music degree Spyder is again competent at their job but again due to staff shortages, idiot RN's who dont realise that the buck stops with them so matter , has been placed in a position they shouldent have been placed in EVER. And forgive me Spyder, theres always a choice like "I am not qualified to run an OR, I do not have the necessary qualifications to do so, this hospital could get sued by a patient if it was discovered that a tech with a music degree is running the place", at least that is what I would have said and then refused to come on shift until a qualified member of staff was around. So yes there was a choice.

Anyway my point if I can get to it is that, I truly believe that theres not a tech out there who cant become an RN. So instead of trying to make equal money by scrubbing well for the surgeons and becoming their favourite person because you can anticipate their every need, or instead of taking charge when it must be quite inappropriate for you to do so and telling us that even if the RN was there you would be given the responsibility, go and do your RN. PLEASE, GO AND DO YOUR RN AND STOP TRYING TO SAY A TECH IS THE SAME. ITS NOT IN THE EYES OF MANAGEMENT, ITS NOT IN THE EYES OR YOUR CO WORKERS WHO ARE RN'S AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT ITS NOT THE SAME IN THE EYES OR PATIENTS. For those techs who choose to stay as techs, enjoy their jobs and respect the difference between us, I salute you.

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My music marketing degree is actually a business degree, but thats irrelevant.

There is a lot of back story and missing info that I didn't include. If I had refused to go on duty. I would have been fired. I'm sure you say thats wrong, and yes I know its wrong. Its just the OR Manager was a charachter *for lack of a more appropriate word*. That OR manager did finally get fired for all the crap they have pulled.

I might have misinterpreted your thoughts on the money. My leaving honestly had more to do with my personal life. I was just upset that after busting my ass. I got crap for a raise. I was just using what more money I am making now as a basis for feeling appreciated.

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hi again,

ive read responses to my post and I think perhaps some of you are getting the wrong idea.....I certainly am not arguing my position vs an RN, nor am I saying that I take on any RN responsibilities, I dont. I certainly dont 'run the or' in the evening (although we have no true charge nurse, we have three nurses who share the 'role' but whose hearts and behaviors are not into 'being in charge (a whole other issue) so, in effect, myself and whatever staff is scheduled 3-11p are more or less on their own. This means that we have to repull every case cart that is picked, because the posting people (who have been there for years) are not medical people, who the charge nurses do not care to oversee, post cases as THEY interpret them (most always wrong) Nobody up front asks the right questions when a case is posted. So, I get paged to get a case cart, but have learned to try to catch the post sheet BEFORE it gets pulled...so when I see an ortho case posted as an ex-fix vs an retrograde IM nail, and see who the attending is, I can determine what systems that surgeon prefers and pull it. Otherwise, the poster will post an ORIF of a femur and an IM nail (which defaults to antegrade), and the case cart will be pulled wrong. Its just how things go. Obviously, this is wasting our processing staffs time. Ive addressed the postings, but the issues actually run deeper.

The case carts/posting is where it begins. We are a teaching hospital so we deal with residents....at all levels. Some are very good, others are still young and inexperienced, although they are thrust into making big decisions. Traumas that involve multiple services working together simultaneously, open the door for alot of confusion as far as facilitating how things are going to work....I dont take control, but I do communicate with everyone involved and try to steer them all towards each other so EVERYONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE. I dont call any shots, believe me, but I do recognize when one resident comes in and annonces four services are needed, that the charge nurse may not be aware (because WE WERENT TOLD THIS, we were only told of one service) so, in effect, I just try to be aware of miscommunications and troubleshoot.

We have a core group of knowledgeable staff who DO KNOW these things, I just happen to be the only one on 3-11p. I have discussed the 'obstacles' with some staff. Its been said that in the OR, when you have people who have been running things a long time (20+yrs), they have a system. It doesnt have to make sense or be user friendly. The theory is, that by having a system that ISNT USER FRIENDLY (such as 'generic preference cards that arent accurate, keeping certain items a surgeon will ask for 'hidden' in different illogical areas, creates an environment where the people who KNOW these things....become essential / favorable to the surgeons! IT makes sense. I dont agree with it, and have tried to change it, but my requests were not met with enthusiasm :)

So I had to learn (often the hard way) myself!

What makes me different, is that I share this knowledge and never treat anyone who doesnt know as if they have two heads.

As a result, I have an excellent repoire with all the RN's I work with....I attribute this to the fact that I am easy going and earn their respect by explaining things, and filling them in.....if they insist on doing something their way, I dont argue. Let me add, if I dont know something, I say 'I dont know'. And theres alot of things I DONT KNOW.

Ive learned that by admitting when I dont know something, and sharing what I do know...I have earned alot of trust.

And to clear up the salary question, our hospital pays RNs very well, and travelers, well, they do very well. I get paid a techs salary, which, from what Ive seen over the years, varies greatly. I know techs in the area that have exp and make $14, because they havent 'moved around'. Other techs in the area, with similar exp make $22! This is a big gap!

Most nurses in our area pull in $28-$40.

My point in all of this, is that I was offered $1 more an hour from another area hosital. Its not alot, but when I asked my hospital to recognize it, they put me through such a rigamarole....and when the HR OR recruiter initially told me that it would be no problem they do it all the time....how glad she was I came to her before taking another job, that retention was #1 priority, that NO TECH has ever come in to her (they just leave) blah, blah

then, changed her story, confiding in me that 'her superior' the mystery person, didnt deem OR techs as important as say 'RN's'....then, compared my situation to that of a secretary who once asked for a raise (and got it)

then, after a week, told me no.... that her superior denied my request for $1 more, but, she 'feels' that all techs may get a market adjustment after the new year...so if WANT to hang in....

this is all Im saying....Im not wanting a nurses salary, nor do I run the OR, I just feel that I am valuable, and if another hospital is willing to offer me more money (not even KNOWING if Im valuable or not!) then why isnt MY hosital willing to do the same KNOWING that Im valuable? I fear that they dont know Im valuable, and they dont care to know :(

Some RN's have offered to write me a letter, as well as some of the surgeons I work with....so now Im facing do I take another job or do I get staff and surgeons to back me up and reapproach HR?

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It is management that brings in ORTs in the first place. It is an economically feasible solution.

My local hospital has this new training program, where they are training RN's to scrub, circulate, everything... they say the trend is they want to "phase out" scrub techs, and have only RN's scrub ... I am just sharing what the trend is at this particular hospital, dont get all upset, or think I think this is the best idea or that I think techs are incompetant, I dont.......a local tech school(that had their own scrub tech program 2 yrs long) will come in and train the RN's at the hospital to scrub.....

I hope I get that job......;)

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