Would you assist in abortions? - page 30
I am just curious. Would you ever work in an abortion clinic? Would you give pills that would cause an abortion? Thanks... Read More
May 18, '04Occupation: Staff RN. Behavioral Medicine/Skilled Nursing Unit Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 29; Likes: 1Sorry to all my colleagues...I really am not wanting to personally attack someone....just wanting to protect innocent lives. Without naming names or copying a part of anyone else's post....My husband also was adopted, he has dealt with many different feelings over the years related to that...he is a brillant man...chemical engineer...can you imagine the loss to this world if his birth mom had decided to snuff him out? Can you imagine the vast amounts of loss of genetic material that has been aborted, that would have become maybe another Einstien...or another street worker....or ...healthcare worker or
....hamburger short order cook....? Everyone has a place....role.........I commend any women who dispite difficult situation, carries the prescious life to term. even though they themselves need to have therapy. Most people that I know that have actually place a baby for adoption, have the satisfaction that when faced with a difficult...maybe embarassing situation...they CHOSE LIFE for their zygote/embryo/baby. This satisfaction helps them go on in life, knowing they made a very unselfish decision....
The answer to the starting question was about we would assist with abortions...and NO WAY would I ever again assist in one...I did work in a clinic along time ago that performed them...(I was the insurance secretary, and took the "products of conception" to the lab)...but after seeing small feet with legs attached, but ripped off the little body...with a ribcage floating in the rest of the fluid (the clinic only did 1st trimester AB) ...that was enough for me........
Now this may make you think I am "back-peddling"....BUT...If I got floated to another unit and there was a post AB patient, I would provide the same care that I would anyone....they are really needing support....
May 18, '04Occupation: Operating Room Nurse Specialty: 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 17,036; Likes: 1,007Quote from llg2700You're saying that assuming that woman who gets an abortion is thinking of herself ONLY, when that is not always the case (not to mention calling it selfish is very judgemental). How about a baby that's ALREADY suffering in the womb? Everyone's situation is different, TRUST ME.This satisfaction helps them go on in life, knowing they made a very unselfish decision....
(And NEVER would i call an abortion a 'snuff'! Gag! :stone )
May 18, '04Occupation: Staff RN. Behavioral Medicine/Skilled Nursing Unit Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 29; Likes: 1Should one be disposed of early in the suffering stages...that would make it better? Whose discription of suffering should be used?.....How much suffering should one allow?
May 18, '04Occupation: Operating Room Nurse Specialty: 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 17,036; Likes: 1,007Quote from llg2700I never SAID it would make ANYTHING better, although the one situation i have in mind, it did. Each situation is different.Should one be disposed of early in the suffering stages...that would make it better? Whose discription of suffering should be used?.....How much suffering should one allow?
Look at the WHOLE situation before assuming that a woman is selfish to get an abortion, was (still is) my point.
May 18, '04Occupation: pediatric home care Joined: May '04; Posts: 703; Likes: 7Quote from llg2700We are getting into a morality issue that will never be closed. The original post was simply would you work in an abortion facility/floor.Should one be disposed of early in the suffering stages...that would make it better? Whose discription of suffering should be used?.....How much suffering should one allow?
We are not to judge our patients choices. We can disagree with them, but not judge them.
Yes, as I said before, I would. If a woman wants one, it's her choice.
I really hate that "it's her body crap." but on the other hand, I also hate to see how many unwanted children there are in this country.
Adoption is a great alternative, but where are all those people who have bumper stickers on their car when it comes time to take a kid or two home? Not at the adoption agency (all too often.)
Yes, I believe adoptions are a needed procedure. Besides, it sure beats the hell out of an abortion in some back alley kitchen! And that was going on not so long ago.
May 18, '04Occupation: Operating Room Nurse Specialty: 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 17,036; Likes: 1,007Heck, they still go on in back alley kitchens, just not the degree that they used to.
May 18, '04Occupation: pediatric home care Joined: May '04; Posts: 703; Likes: 7Quote from LPN2Be2004I was fairly sure they do, some things never go away, but have no numbers to back it up. One thing for sure I've learned here is that if you make a statement, you'd better be able to back it with figures.Heck, they still go on in back alley kitchens, just not the degree that they used to.
May 18, '04Occupation: Haemetology nurse Specialty: Oncology/Haemetology/HIV ; From: US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 7,040; Likes: 7,483Quote from ChrisAI have refused jobs that would require work with something that I find morally reprehensible.To those who would not, what would you actually do if you worked somewhere where they asked you to assist on a procedure? Would you just say "I won't do that"?
As a onco nurse, I have declined positions in onco gyn that did terminations, related to treatment issues. I do not work ICU because I have moral objections to some current uses of ventilator technology that goes on there, and where I would be put in a position of acting on those issues. It is being a responsible person of conscience.
On an OB/gyn rotation, a patient was having a termination due to severe fetal birth defects/and maternal hypertension. The mother held out against abortion, until her life was seriously endangered by the pregnancy (5 month mark). The MD actually came around asking us if we would insert the laminaria/give the meds...no staff nurse would do so...and of course I refused. I did assist with the care of the patient...comfort measures, vital signs, etc. What I think angered us, is that the MD could have done all of those (the meds/laminaria) himself...it was his patient and he was the one that brought the patient to this hospital and got special permit to do this procedure...but wanted to just write orders and have the nursing staff do the "'dirty work". I felt that was arrogant and presumptious. We made him carry out his orders but he griped and whined the entire time.
May 19, '04Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 51; Likes: 1PEOPLE ARE GONNA DO WHAT THEY WANT, WE CAN BI#TCH ALL WE WANT NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE AND WE WILL BE FIGHTING ABOUT THIS FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. IF YOU ARE A NURSE ITS YOUR JOB TO HELP PEOPLE, YOU ALSO HAVE A CHOICE IN WHAT FIELD YOU CHOOSE TO WORK. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN ABORTIONS THEN DONT WORK WHERE THERE IS THE POTIENTAL TO ASSIST IN THAT TYPE OF PROCEDURE. I AM SURE THAT ALOT OF YOU BELIEVE THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE PROACTIVE AND HAVE RIGHTS TO DO ALOT OF THINGS. TOO BAD YOU WANT TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT A WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO DO. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ONE THING DO YOU ALL THINK THAT IT IS OKAY TO STAND OUTSIDE OF AN ABORTION CLINIC AND MAKE WOMEN FEEL EVEN WORSE FOR WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO. OF COURSE YOU DO BECAUSE IN YOUR MIND THEY ARE TRASH. :angryfire I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT A PROLIFE WOMAN WOULD DO IF SHE WERE RAPED, OR MOLESTED BY A FAMILY MEMBER WOULD SHE HAVE THE BABY AND GIVE IT UP AND THEN LET THAT CHILD FIND OUT THAT THEY ARE A PRODUCT OF SOMETHING HORRIBLE THAT HAPPENED? I AM SURE THEY WOULD BECAUSE GOD FORBID THAT THEY THINK OF ANYONE ELSE BUT THEMSELVES.Last edit by gwenith on May 19, '04 : Reason: changed font
May 19, '04Occupation: pediatric home care Joined: May '04; Posts: 703; Likes: 7I can not believe that you would allow that mother to die just to maintain your pitiful excuse for religion. How arrogant of you!
As you mature in life you will realize that there are trade offs. Often these trade offs are not fair and do not follow your own personal beliefs, but trade offs they are.
That baby would not have had a productive life, proven. We have no idea if he/she would have even survived birth.
God provides us with spontanious abortion to prevent the birth of severly defective children and to protect the mother from the hazards sometimes involved. In this way God chooses who lives or dies. However, prenatal care has improved to the opint that Gods' method is delayed or prevented. You are the good person with morals and all the other happy horse crap you are preaching here. What about the role of medicine today in altering God's methods?
If you are going to argue religious or moral reasons for not participating in an abortion, I suggest you prepare an argument for the rest of the story.
Medicine took this pregnancy to the point where both mother and child would die. Where's the sense in that?
May 19, '04Occupation: Haemetology nurse Specialty: Oncology/Haemetology/HIV ; From: US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 7,040; Likes: 7,483We merely guided the MD to do his job...which is appropriate.
It is not our job to work as an MD. It most certainly is not a student nurse's job to do an MD's job. It is not in a student's scope to insert laminaria. It is inappropriate that the MD will take on such cases and then try to put the actions of them of on others that may have understandable objections and then whine when we force him to do his job.
It also has little to do with religion, as my religion permits abortion in some circumstances.
The point is one can refuse to do what one finds morally unacceptable.
There are plenty of nurses that are Jehovah's Witnesses and some of whom refuse to transfuse blood....in that case, another nurse/MD/PA/NP does the transfusion...what do you say to them?
And medicine did not take the patient to her situation, her health did.
May 19, '04Occupation: new grad Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 2,637; Likes: 18This thread has turned ugly. Therefore, it is being closed to allow cooling off time. It will still be available to view.
Nekhismom, Ob-gyn and nursing midwifery forum moderator