Personal malpractice insurance....yes or no?

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

We had this discussion at work the other day. One of the points against it was that lawyers will go for the person(s) with the most . Also I know, I've been told that the hospital would back you up if you are following policy. Do you carry a personal policy?

Beth

James, I saw 3 nurses get sued a few years ago. They were VERY seasoned, competent and VERY "friendly", likeable people. Did not matter, however, cause, yes, they were sued individually, as well as the doctor, in this case. Watching what they went through and seeing how LONG the process was, well, it was rather compelling in the argument FOR personal malpractice insurance. I guess I am rather dubious......

I just do not trust a hospital to look our for my needs should it happen to me. Garnishment of future earnings is a horrible thought since I have years of work ahead of me. Threatening every measly asset my family owns is another. Also, the hospital can and will drop me like a hot freaking potato if they see the risk is not worth defending me. How can anyone argue this? I see the arguments against carrying personal malpractice insurance, and I can understand them. I see both sides. I just am very mistrustful of the hospital to look out for my interests as an employee should, Heaven forbid, I am named in a suit in the future.

It's hard to predict what may happen in the 20- plus years I have to work in the future, really. Let me say, clearly, whoever believes nurses are not sued, cause they think the patients "like" us, needs to meet these 3 ladies---- two of whom no longer are nurses due to this nightmare. :o

Lawsuits costs money. Lots of money. For an attorney to spend $$$ lots of it, to go after a harworking joe, doesn't happen. Attorneys go after INSURANCE money. The big bucks.

As far as the "hospital dropping you", the hospital doesn't have anything to do with the lawsuit. Their insurance carrier is in charge. The lawyers for the insurance company are doing everything they can to prevent paying insurance money. They want you, and the rest of the staff, to look perfect. They are defending your actions.

If you have insurance, and are sued, your attorney is doing the same thing... trying to prevent paying any money.

However, if you have insurance, you will definitely be more involved in the suit, more depositions, more questions, more time, more stress, because of your insurance.

Keep in mind, Everything is about the money. (I am not saying that a greiving family would be out for money- I am talking about the suit, the process, the attorneys, the defense, etc. The only one NOT concerned about the money is usually the family)

But what if you make a mistake and are at fault for a baby having a disability or God forbid dying? Isn't the family entitled to the money it would cost to care for the child.

What if you worked in another area and you did something that caused the death or severe disability of a families only source of support? Wouldn't you feel like your insurance should cover them? You don't think the hospital will hang you out to dry? I mean the already treat nurses so well so of course they won't cover their own butts and leave a nurse to the wolves. :rolleyes:

And like James said, your hospital's policy is not going to help with a lawyer to defend you to the BON. Just curious, but how would the patient or lawyer know a nurse had anyway? Is there a registry. I doubt the insurance companies hand over a list to the lawyers of all nurses who have it. I would think they wouldn't want anyone to know.

But what if you make a mistake and are at fault for a baby having a disability or God forbid dying? Isn't the family entitled to the money it would cost to care for the child.

What if you worked in another area and you did something that caused the death or severe disability of a families only source of support? Wouldn't you feel like your insurance should cover them? You don't think the hospital will hang you out to dry? I mean the already treat nurses so well so of course they won't cover their own butts and leave a nurse to the wolves. :rolleyes:

And like James said, your hospital's policy is not going to help with a lawyer to defend you to the BON. Just curious, but how would the patient or lawyer know a nurse had anyway? Is there a registry. I doubt the insurance companies hand over a list to the lawyers of all nurses who have it. I would think they wouldn't want anyone to know.

ayndim, I'll ask you as I've asked others: if you make a mistake, will you immediately compensate for the damage done? Or would you wait for a jury trial? And if you would wait, why would you wait? Why should an attorney get 35-40% of a settlement from your insurance carrier?

I'm being a bit simplistic, but not too much. We've all made mistakes. And I've yet to see a nurse so idealistic as to, say, sign over her house to the recipient of the mistake.

Most people simply don't sue. And that's a good thing. But according to this logic, we should maybe voluntarily point out mistakes, claim negligence, and compensate away. If you feel this way, that's cool. But, trust me, your malpractice carrier doesn't feel that way. And if you were ever sued (which -- as I have pointed out -- is a nearly totally hypothetical situation) the insurance company's attorneys would fight very hard to prevent them from having to pay out claims.

I'm not meaning to pick on you. I feel very strongly for nurses taking responsibility for their own actions. That's one of the reasons I launched an independent practice some 20 years ago. I don't work for a hospital, and I take my own risks. But, folks, this idea that nurses should be doormats who roll over at the slightest mistake ... well, let's just say that Florence has been dead for a while. Maybe we should realize this is 2004, and act like we were living in a real environment, and not some idealistic one.

Jim Huffman

ayndim, I'll ask you as I've asked others: if you make a mistake, will you immediately compensate for the damage done? Or would you wait for a jury trial? And if you would wait, why would you wait? Why should an attorney get 35-40% of a settlement from your insurance carrier?

I'm being a bit simplistic, but not too much. We've all made mistakes. And I've yet to see a nurse so idealistic as to, say, sign over her house to the recipient of the mistake.

Most people simply don't sue. And that's a good thing. But according to this logic, we should maybe voluntarily point out mistakes, claim negligence, and compensate away. If you feel this way, that's cool. But, trust me, your malpractice carrier doesn't feel that way. And if you were ever sued (which -- as I have pointed out -- is a nearly totally hypothetical situation) the insurance company's attorneys would fight very hard to prevent them from having to pay out claims.

I'm not meaning to pick on you. I feel very strongly for nurses taking responsibility for their own actions. That's one of the reasons I launched an independent practice some 20 years ago. I don't work for a hospital, and I take my own risks. But, folks, this idea that nurses should be doormats who roll over at the slightest mistake ... well, let's just say that Florence has been dead for a while. Maybe we should realize this is 2004, and act like we were living in a real environment, and not some idealistic one.

Jim Huffman

But what if you make a mistake and are at fault for a baby having a disability or God forbid dying? Isn't the family entitled to the money it would cost to care for the child.

What if you worked in another area and you did something that caused the death or severe disability of a families only source of support? Wouldn't you feel like your insurance should cover them? You don't think the hospital will hang you out to dry? I mean the already treat nurses so well so of course they won't cover their own butts and leave a nurse to the wolves. :rolleyes:

And like James said, your hospital's policy is not going to help with a lawyer to defend you to the BON. Just curious, but how would the patient or lawyer know a nurse had malpractice insurance anyway? Is there a registry. I doubt the insurance companies hand over a list to the lawyers of all nurses who have it. I would think they wouldn't want anyone to know.

Do you really think that it is so easy? Just say to your insurance: "I made a mistake, give them a million". Very naive. Yes, they would go through a battle, and by the time they actually received a settlement, the attorneys get most of the $. Many families do not have that feeling of closure after the legal trauma... they just want it over.

Hospitals do not "hang you out to dry". The facility has nothing to do with the legal battle. The insurance company and their lawyers take over. They will portray you as Florence Nightingale. They want to keep their money, so they work very hard to defend the employees actions- that means you. So, they won't leave you "to the wolves".

No, there is not a registry. A very simple letter to the opposing council requesting insurance information is how they get their information. The respondant has to provide this information. The intial suit may include many employees names, then the information regarding insurance is obtained.

Much of the myths come from insurance propoganda. Just look at the nursing magazines, look at the ads. Now, isn't it odd that there doesn't seem to be any info/statistics to be found? Insurance companies are very quick to provide stats when it is beneficial to them. No stats are provided in this case because the insurance companies are getting lots of $$$ and paying out very, very little.

But what if you make a mistake and are at fault for a baby having a disability or God forbid dying? Isn't the family entitled to the money it would cost to care for the child.

What if you worked in another area and you did something that caused the death or severe disability of a families only source of support? Wouldn't you feel like your insurance should cover them? You don't think the hospital will hang you out to dry? I mean the already treat nurses so well so of course they won't cover their own butts and leave a nurse to the wolves. :rolleyes:

And like James said, your hospital's policy is not going to help with a lawyer to defend you to the BON. Just curious, but how would the patient or lawyer know a nurse had malpractice insurance anyway? Is there a registry. I doubt the insurance companies hand over a list to the lawyers of all nurses who have it. I would think they wouldn't want anyone to know.

Do you really think that it is so easy? Just say to your insurance: "I made a mistake, give them a million". Very naive. Yes, they would go through a battle, and by the time they actually received a settlement, the attorneys get most of the $. Many families do not have that feeling of closure after the legal trauma... they just want it over.

Hospitals do not "hang you out to dry". The facility has nothing to do with the legal battle. The insurance company and their lawyers take over. They will portray you as Florence Nightingale. They want to keep their money, so they work very hard to defend the employees actions- that means you. So, they won't leave you "to the wolves".

No, there is not a registry. A very simple letter to the opposing council requesting insurance information is how they get their information. The respondant has to provide this information. The intial suit may include many employees names, then the information regarding insurance is obtained.

Much of the myths come from insurance propoganda. Just look at the nursing magazines, look at the ads. Now, isn't it odd that there doesn't seem to be any info/statistics to be found? Insurance companies are very quick to provide stats when it is beneficial to them. No stats are provided in this case because the insurance companies are getting lots of $$$ and paying out very, very little.

ayndim, I'll ask you as I've asked others: if you make a mistake, will you immediately compensate for the damage done? Or would you wait for a jury trial? And if you would wait, why would you wait? Why should an attorney get 35-40% of a settlement from your insurance carrier?

I'm being a bit simplistic, but not too much. We've all made mistakes. And I've yet to see a nurse so idealistic as to, say, sign over her house to the recipient of the mistake.

Most people simply don't sue. And that's a good thing. But according to this logic, we should maybe voluntarily point out mistakes, claim negligence, and compensate away. If you feel this way, that's cool. But, trust me, your malpractice carrier doesn't feel that way. And if you were ever sued (which -- as I have pointed out -- is a nearly totally hypothetical situation) the insurance company's attorneys would fight very hard to prevent them from having to pay out claims.

I'm not meaning to pick on you. I feel very strongly for nurses taking responsibility for their own actions. That's one of the reasons I launched an independent practice some 20 years ago. I don't work for a hospital, and I take my own risks. But, folks, this idea that nurses should be doormats who roll over at the slightest mistake ... well, let's just say that Florence has been dead for a while. Maybe we should realize this is 2004, and act like we were living in a real environment, and not some idealistic one.

Jim Huffman

I am not talking small mistakes. Of course everyone makes them we are human. I am talking about the mistakes that kill or disable someone.

ayndim, I'll ask you as I've asked others: if you make a mistake, will you immediately compensate for the damage done? Or would you wait for a jury trial? And if you would wait, why would you wait? Why should an attorney get 35-40% of a settlement from your insurance carrier?

I'm being a bit simplistic, but not too much. We've all made mistakes. And I've yet to see a nurse so idealistic as to, say, sign over her house to the recipient of the mistake.

Most people simply don't sue. And that's a good thing. But according to this logic, we should maybe voluntarily point out mistakes, claim negligence, and compensate away. If you feel this way, that's cool. But, trust me, your malpractice carrier doesn't feel that way. And if you were ever sued (which -- as I have pointed out -- is a nearly totally hypothetical situation) the insurance company's attorneys would fight very hard to prevent them from having to pay out claims.

I'm not meaning to pick on you. I feel very strongly for nurses taking responsibility for their own actions. That's one of the reasons I launched an independent practice some 20 years ago. I don't work for a hospital, and I take my own risks. But, folks, this idea that nurses should be doormats who roll over at the slightest mistake ... well, let's just say that Florence has been dead for a while. Maybe we should realize this is 2004, and act like we were living in a real environment, and not some idealistic one.

Jim Huffman

I am not talking small mistakes. Of course everyone makes them we are human. I am talking about the mistakes that kill or disable someone.

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
I am not talking small mistakes. Of course everyone makes them we are human. I am talking about the mistakes that kill or disable someone.

ayndim,

I applaud you for being one of the very few participants in this discussion willing to acknowlege and meet your responsibilities to a patient who you may inadvertently injure. Your morals and ethics are above and beyond those of our fellow RNs who are intent on finding ways to avoid such responsibility.

I am quite sure that those very same people would never allow an uninsured physician to care for themselves or their families. How can we possibly expect to be considered as professionals when we are not willing to take responsibility for our actions (however inadvertent) and provide compensation for patients who have been truly harmed by our actions?

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
I am not talking small mistakes. Of course everyone makes them we are human. I am talking about the mistakes that kill or disable someone.

ayndim,

I applaud you for being one of the very few participants in this discussion willing to acknowlege and meet your responsibilities to a patient who you may inadvertently injure. Your morals and ethics are above and beyond those of our fellow RNs who are intent on finding ways to avoid such responsibility.

I am quite sure that those very same people would never allow an uninsured physician to care for themselves or their families. How can we possibly expect to be considered as professionals when we are not willing to take responsibility for our actions (however inadvertent) and provide compensation for patients who have been truly harmed by our actions?

Specializes in Home Health Case Mgr.

Jim, I am with you here. Before I got into nursing was in legal field, also wife is L & D nurse. First thing the legal team does is an "Asset Search" (I've done them on other people) If you do not have insurance, 2nd home, yatch, airplane, business you are not of much interest. Depending on the state, Texas for example...Cannot garnish wages, retirement, cannot seize homestead, cars ONLY luxuary items (boats, harleys). My wife was named twice in twenty years in L & D and both times she showed up to be deposed, she was dropped from suit after assets were revealed, also, yes most assest are in my name or joint name. I would like the insurance for BON stuff for sure though. Just a tough call and a personal preference. Coencidently the lawyers usually hired to defend nurses or hospitals are usually RN/JD or MD/JD.

"Rock on fellow nurses"

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