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Nursing Shortage? Maybe not so much . . .

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elprup has 2 years experience as a BSN, RN.

21,660 Visitors; 1,005 Posts

I've been saying this since I graduated may 2008. Sent letters everywhere, even NPR! Finally somebody gets there is no shortage for new graduates! Now we just have to. Get everybody else to realize it. Good luck with that. My letters went nowhere.

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8,982 Visitors; 980 Posts

Here is an article posted on Johns Hopkins school of nursing about what they feel is the upcoming nursing shortage. It definitely feels like a sales pitch for their school. (and of course established schools have an interest as well in promoting their programs)

http://www.son.jhmi.edu/newsevents/news/news.aspx?ID=653

According to recent reports from nursing recruiters at the six Johns Hopkins hospitals--Bayview, Howard County, Suburban, Sibley, All Childrens (FL), and The Johns Hopkins Hospital--as these hospitals expand and experience increasing nurse retirements, they will "take all of the graduates you can give us."

Edited by leenak

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13,273 Visitors; 2,801 Posts

they will "take all of the graduates you can give us."

LOL! Will they take the graduates from last year and this year as well who still haven't found work? Is this guy willing to sign a contract with future nursing grads guaranteeing to "take them all" by a certain date if they haven't found anything else? Can you imagine the backpedaling he'd have to do in a few years if someone trotted that quote out on him?

Afterall, if a facility were *that* understaffed, the last thing they'd want to do is hire a bunch of newbies with no real prior nursing experience as that many newbies at once could more of a hindrance than a help. It rarely is explained that "nursing shortage" means shortage of nurses willing and able to fill certain roles at given wages. A bunch of inexperienced new grad nurses cannot just be plugged right in to any open nursing role - which is often the impression given in soundbites.

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8,982 Visitors; 980 Posts

Afterall, if a facility were *that* understaffed, the last thing they'd want to do is hire a bunch of newbies with no real prior nursing experience as that many newbies at once could more of a hindrance than a help. It rarely is explained that "nursing shortage" means shortage of nurses willing and able to fill certain roles at given wages. A bunch of inexperienced new grad nurses cannot just be plugged right in to any open nursing role - which is often the impression given in soundbites.

well and that is an interesting point. When the economy bounces back a bit and 401ks start to improve, I imagine those that put off retirement will go into retirement resulting in even fewer experienced nurses. It would certainly behoove hospitals to start highering new grads more readily.

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nursel56 has 25+ years experience and specializes in peds//ambulatory care/HH-private duty.

1 Follower; 43,275 Visitors; 6,653 Posts

I did not mean to appear that BSNs would not do basic patient or that no one has ever given good valid reasons for better patient care.

However, I think administrators will find it harder to argue with BSNs.

Why?

As a LPN, I am often met with "well get your RN and then we will talk" and I know some of my ASN friends that hear the same thing about BSN.

Can you give an example of an issue you presented that was met with that reply? And why your administrators felt confident in saying what type of license you have was so important that it transcended the information itself?

I have a business background, so I know the money is talking with these hospitals and facilities. Remember, business is always about selling (a service or product). These business managers (as that is what is running health care now) care about MONEY, not patient care.

Money is always the issue, whether it comes from insurance companies or taxpayer-funded entitlements. I'm not seeing exactly how the differences between an associate's degree and a bachelor's degree is so important a variable it would cause a those greedy administrators to change any policy that benefits them.

As for unions, I think that unions cause more problems than they are worth. I recommend Karl Marx's book "The Communist Manifesto". You may change your outlook regarding unions after reading it.

I don't think I will. Whatever excesses have occurred over the years, unions are the only thing standing between those greedy money-grubbers and a completely powerless individual - say an immigrant coal miner who would like to live to see his children grow up, a 12 year old child who thinks a 55 hour work week is a bit much, or a young woman toiling in a sweatshop with locked doors that open in, not out. I can recommend several books on the subject if you're interested.

If it weren't for a trade union we might still be looking at the Berlin Wall. That goes to the point that it is usually a charismatic individual from the ranks who is the catalyst for change. If all it took was an advanced degree, there would not have been a need for a Lech Walesa, a Samuel Gompers, or a Norma Ray, or a "Mother" Jones.

Nurses need to advocate for themselves (and their patients). If the entire unit/hospital of nurses are miserable, than go on "strike" you do not need a union to unite and make demands.

A group that unites and makes demands is a union. How would you go on strike without a union? Who would negotiate on behalf of the non-striking nurses who no leverage in a negotiation?

If only 1 or 2 people keep quitting and getting replaced, then nothing will ever happen. They will take the high turnover (even though the cost of turnover is more than hiring more staff and giving better benefits) to "giving in" any day.

Are you aware of any reputable statistics showing that turnover is much lower with BSN nurses? Logic would tell you the opposite would be true since they are hired first in the specialties most desired by new grads.

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20,848 Visitors; 1,850 Posts

I don't think I will. Whatever excesses have occurred over the years, unions are the only thing standing between those greedy money-grubbers and a completely powerless individual - say an immigrant coal miner who would like to live to see his children grow up, a 12 year old child who thinks a 55 hour work week is a bit much, or a young woman toiling in a sweatshop with locked doors that open in, not out. I can recommend several books on the subject if you're interested.

Thank You!

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PMFB-RN has 16 years experience and specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Traum Rapid Response.

68,932 Visitors; 5,143 Posts

However, I think administrators will find it harder to argue with BSNs. As a LPN, I am often met with "well get your RN and then we will talk" and I know some of my ASN friends that hear the same thing about BSN.

*** Never in my experience has something like the letters that appear after a nurses name made the slightest difference. In my experience administrators find it harder to argue with good competent nurses with lots of experience. I can't even conceive of any conflict or issues between administrators and nurses where the letters after a nurses name would even be an afterthought. The difference between an LPN and RN are vast. No so with RNs of various basic educations.

As for unions, I think that unions cause more problems than they are worth. I recommend Karl Marx's book "The Communist Manifesto". You may change your outlook regarding unions after reading it.

*** (eyes roll in exasperation) Speaking as a staunch conservative and right winger who has read Marx's book a couple times I have to say that if that is the conclusion you came to then you have completely missed the point of the book.

Nurses need to advocate for themselves (and their patients). If the entire unit/hospital of nurses are miserable, than go on "strike" you do not need a union to unite and make demands.

*** As soon as they unite and make demands they have created a union.

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Toradol has 20 years experience and specializes in Hospital.

1,216 Visitors; 13 Posts

True they don't call for nurses as much as they used to, finding a nursing job is now harder than ever, I used to be able to go in fill out an application and walk out with a job that day, Not any more!

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trixie333 has 35 years experience.

4,829 Visitors; 69 Posts

just great...i start school in a week and quit a decent paying job to do it. my anxiety level just went through the roof. though when you do a quick search of the major hospitals in phoenix there are literally tons of openings, so maybe i am just worried for nothing. any experienced nurses out there know of anything more i can do while in school to help me be "more hire-able" when i am done?

any help is always appreciated!

spend some spare time learning about the ihs in your area....they have a real need, offer reasonable pay and good benefits...and a tuition pay off program if you are serious... they also prefer bsn, so map out your education accordingly...

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DSkelton711 has 25+ years experience and specializes in OB/GYN/Neonatal/Office/Geriatric.

5,561 Visitors; 312 Posts

I am also 50, an RN and unemployed. Like a previous poster noted, I am far from retirement age, but can't find a job. Will be homeless soon, too. It doesn't matter if you are ASN or BSN-no job is no job. And when you have been without a job for awhile they won't hire you because your skills are no longer current. And thinking you won't take crap because you have a BSN-good luck with that. If you want a job in a hospital you are subject to taking crap all day. Everything goes in cycles. One year you can have any job you want, the next year--you'll be thankful just to be working. Good Luck to everybody. At least it's good not to be alone in this.

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40,209 Visitors; 4,112 Posts

While it seems everyone wants to work in one, IMHO the growth areas for nurses in future will be outside of hospitals.

Those of us from a certain era can remember when almost *everything* took place within a hospital. From diagnostic tests and or proceedures, to the following surgical/medical intervention, recovery and so forth all required a hospital stay. Now of course much of that is now done on out patient basis and so forth, leaving hospitals with mainly various levels of acute care patients. If this country ever embraces lying in hospitals and or home births in any big way, then one of the last steady areas for hospitals will go as well.

New hospitals are being designed as smaller with less in patient beds, and large old "barns" are being either redesigned or finding other ways to shed un-needed bed space. These things coupled with just in time staffing could mean the days of steady full time work weeks for nurses in some areas may become harder to find. Here in NYC it is was uncommon even before the hospital closures last year to find RNs working gigs at several hospitals to cobble together enough hours to live on.

Was reading the Sunday New York Times last week and am aghast at what puny listings appear weekly in the "Healthcare" section for employment. I mean it is not even located in the main "want ads" section anymore (or what is left of that section anyway).

Now back in the 1980's and 1990's there was at least two, four or more pages of adverts for nurses from all our local NYC hospitals and nursing homes.

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DSkelton711 has 25+ years experience and specializes in OB/GYN/Neonatal/Office/Geriatric.

5,561 Visitors; 312 Posts

You are right. There will be more community nursing. Can't believe we still have hospitals around here that are still building up. Pretty much Women's Health Services and Cardiovascular Services are what they are really catering to.

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