Recruiting foreign nurses won't help - page 2
Opinion column : Most news coverage of the immigration bill recently passed by the U.S. Senate focused on the border security, guest worker and amnesty issues. Virtually unnoticed in the bill... Read More
Aug 18, '06Quote from NitngaleCanada has immigration visa for Caregivers, more like CNA in US. A person don't even need to be a nurse in Canada to immigrate.Name me one country that allows foreigners to take away the jobs of its citizens as the US does.
Aug 18, '06Quote from Hellllllo NurseI seriously suspect the above statistics is more than 10 years outdated, and far from the reality. I work as an accountant and I know the RN the company hires makes almost the same salary as our CEO!From the article-
"....Despite these numbers, we really do not have a shortage of qualified nurses. What we have is an insufficient number of nurses willing to work under the very difficult working conditions they face in our hospitals."
"....Eventually, the daily stress of working under these conditions caused nurses to begin leaving the field. And their leaving set off a chain reaction by increasing the shortage, which in turn, put additional pressure on the nurses who remain, causing even more to leave."
"...Trying to address this problem by bringing nurses from abroad, or even by educating more nurses here, without addressing the root causes of the shortage, will have the same effect as sticking a finger into a leaky dike. It may help in the very short term, but in the long run, disaster awaits."
If nurses want to compare their salaries to doctors, of course they can always say their pay are low. But the reality is, nursing school are full of applicants. Everbody knows become a nurese can improve thire financial situation greatly!
Aug 18, '06I would take the opposite approach to limiting immigration. I would allow unlimited immigration. The so called 'shortage' (no such thing-it DOESN"T EXIST) would disappear. Nurses would be displaced, wages would fall, profits would pile up and hospital executives would be in Nirvana. Soon however, as greedy executives and investors gobbled up hospitals and began doing their number crunching best to "walmartize' the hospital industry, RN's would begin leaving in droves, and this time there would be no more overseas resources to tap for 'quick fixes' . A select few would become very wealthy, while patients suffer. Then when things were at their worst, a new awakening would occur in this country. People would suddenly realize that what nurses have been saying for ever was TRUE. the 'shortage' (MYTH) is about working conditions We can have all the nurses we need. Build a better workplace and you will have nurses.
Aug 18, '06Quote from wjf00Well, it sounds good on paper, but realistically, if hospitals were to "Walmartize" as you put it, nurses would NOT be leaving the industry in droves. Does Wal-Mart suffer from a derth of employees? Hardly. They have more people in the application pool than they can hire.I would take the opposite approach to limiting immigration. I would allow unlimited immigration. The so called 'shortage' (no such thing-it DOESN"T EXIST) would disappear. Nurses would be displaced, wages would fall, profits would pile up and hospital executives would be in Nirvana. Soon however, as greedy executives and investors gobbled up hospitals and began doing their number crunching best to "walmartize' the hospital industry, RN's would begin leaving in droves, and this time there would be no more overseas resources to tap for 'quick fixes' . A select few would become very wealthy, while patients suffer. Then when things were at their worst, a new awakening would occur in this country. People would suddenly realize that what nurses have been saying for ever was TRUE. the 'shortage' (MYTH) is about working conditions We can have all the nurses we need. Build a better workplace and you will have nurses.
The same would be true of nurses, only instead of nurses earning fair and reasonable wages and livable (for US standards) benefits for the work performed, the price of healthcare would (as you say) plummet and that's where it would stay. There would always be foreign sources to "tap", or rather, exploit.
No, reducing the quality and standards of the industry just makes all of us lose, unfortunately.
Aug 18, '06Without a doubt, the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution, the U.S. Constitution, as well as long recognized rights and duties due relating to citizenship, require the government to promulgate a citizens right to meaningful and well paying employment. Aristotle, the Greek philosopher, stated that the purpose of government was to provide "the good life" for it's citizens.
It is clear that the "special interests" that control both the Democratic and Republican parties desire to unjustly enrich themselves, destroy the aforementioned Constitutional principles and citizenship principles, and increasingly concentrate political power such that the same oppressive strategy against nurses and other American citizens can be furthered.
To those foreign nurses who knowingly assist in the same destruction of our Constitutional and economic rights, I offer the ethical course of expedited re-patriation to their native lands, which lands, quite often, institute the most draconian measures to limit both legal and illegal immigration.:angryfire
Aug 18, '06Quote from jonRNMDJon - well, yes, I used to be, but now I'd be surprised if my IQ is over 100.YES....I totally AGREE!!!!
do you geniuses know that more than half of all private hospitals in California are running huge cash deficits now? and that medicare and Social Security would go bunkrupt in the next decade? and do you know who is gonna foot the bill for increased healthcare cost??? its gonna be YOU, YOU, YOU and the US taxpayers
Can't say I disagree with you, but why the need to be demeaning?
Aug 19, '06And the butt of the problem is?
Believe me, the case of foreign nurse recruitment is not particular to the US.
Singapore faces a simillar situation.
We should probably ask why? Think about it. It's the pay. The quest to get paid as you deserve to be as a nurse. People don't understand how stressful nursing is, we are underpaid and overworked. Globalization has made the world more accessible in terms of the search for better opportunities and treatment. Is it fair to deprive nurses from poorer parts of the world the opportunity for a better future? They contribute positively to the society as much as the local nurses do. They are merely responding to the needs of the healthcare system.
More empasis should be placed on the issues of nurse retention and shortage rather than recriutment of foreigners into the healthcare sector.
This is the only way to nip the problem in the bud.
Aug 19, '06Then when things were at their worst, a new awakening would occur in this country. People would suddenly realize that what nurses have been saying for ever was TRUE. the 'shortage' (MYTH) is about working conditions We can have all the nurses we need. Build a better workplace and you will have nurses.[/quote]
I totally agree.
That is a very carefully thoughtout point. :spin:
Aug 19, '06I doubt that more foreign nurses will help the problem. I equally doubt that it will hurt it either. That being the case, why shouldn't as many qualified nurses as possible seek the 'American Dream'?
I'm not in competition with some Filipino desperately trying to improve his lot in life by obtaining a visa to work here. I'm not.
Y'all are correct, the 'shortage' is a shortage of people willing to work under bad conditions. And the reason why there is NO shortage of nurses willing to come here is that that definition is subjective.
But, no amount of immigration, as has been suggested, can ultimately stem the problems. We've had shortage problems since the '80s. There was a wave of Filipino immigration then, followed by a wave of Canadian immigration in the '90's, and we are on the verge of another wave of Filipino immigration now. And the 'shortage' trend has not been remotely stemmed.
As far as 'pillaging' the nursing resources of third world nations, that's not exactly accurate. There are two parts to moving to another nation: immigration AND emmigration. Not just coming to one country, but leaving another. Those other nations COULD place limits on emmigration, just as we do on immigration. They don't. Why? Because emmigrants sending money back home is big business. And in the weighing of priorities, the governments of those nations find the income of hard currency to be a higher priority. When push comes to shove and the balance goes too far, it is ultimately up to those nations to control their emmigration, not to mention improving their own working conditions to stem the tide of desire to emmigrate.
Personally, I think there are some cultural issues within nursing to accomodate immigration. And, sometimes, I'm annoyed by it. BUT. But the profound opportunities that immigration makes available are worth encouraging.
And, it does not harm us. In a real world cost/benefit analysis, the benefits to those that can immigrate far outweigh the cost to assimilate that immigration.
Simply put, immigration is neither the solution nor the cause of the problems in nursing today. They don't deserve to be scapegoated for problems not of their making.
I wish every prospective immigrant good luck and speed with both the immigration process and assimilating into our wonderful society.
In the meantime, the problems of nursing will remain endemic to nursing until sufficiently addressed by domestic means. As far as the 'wal-martization' of nursing: there are other ways to serve patient populations then by requiring a rigid Registration of nurses. I would be more concerned about the devolution of jobs to UPAs and the resultant devaluation of our 'standards of practice'. If anything, immigration helps to provide an anchor against that.
Timothy.Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 19, '06
Aug 19, '06Both sides of the issue have a point, if you look at them objectively. But I am interested in finding out the current statistics of how many Nursing student applicants are actually in "waiting lists", how many nursing graduates US produces every year, how much is the nursing shortage NOW and in the next five years. We need to know all these so we can try to understand what is happening now. Some may think that this wave of foreign immigration is just politics and capitalism. Some solutions have already been offered e.g. recruiting nurses who are unemployed because of low wages in their area, and expanding classrooms to accomodate more students. These are good suggestions. Great suggestions. But the results of these will take some time. The patients are sick now..and probably sicker by tomorrow if no one will take care of them.. Yes, foreign nurses will be the Band-Aid solution - because there must be an immediate solution. But as soon as the US can supply its own demand, foreign immigration will be halted by the government. This has happened many times before.
Aug 19, '06Quote from StNeotserI believe the 7% quoted is now 12% in 2006-the increase has been desperate in the past few yearsThe UK does.
I'm sure that you can find similar statistics for Canada, Australia, Germany etc if you really wanted to find out.
Aug 19, '06[quote=Nitngale]Then why don't they expand the schools.
You can train as many nurses as possible but you need to retain them. Burn out amongst the new nurses is on the increase, their stress levels are at an all time high.
Aug 19, '06Hopefully, nurses who read the above article will truly see the point, and not immediately have the knee-jerk reaction of crying "racism."