Recession is making nursing shortage worse - page 6

When the commencement ceremonies have concluded, the graduation parties are over, and the relatives have left town, many nursing graduates will wake up to an unexpected reality: a tough job market. ... Read More

  1. by   AZ_LPN_8_26_13
    Quote from elkpark
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

    http://medicaltourismguide.org/

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/26/medical.tourism/

    No, we're not talking about a few desperate souls going abroad in search of non-US-approved quack "cures" -- we're talking about "regular" US citizens traveling to places like Brazil, Singapore, Thailand, India, and others, which have set up "US-style" hospitals (many of them JCAHO accredited) and advertising "US-style" surgery and care (often provided by US-trained physicians), at a fraction of the price for the same procedure in the US (yes, even including the cost of the round-trip travel). There has even been some controversy in the press about some US employers requiring their employees to go to these foreign sites for cardiac surgery, joint replacement, etc., in order to be covered under the employer's insurance. Other people do it because they don't have insurance and can't afford to get a procedure done here, but can afford it abroad. This is a big, growing trend.

    As for the WHO study, I'm sure it's easy to find the info if you're interested in what specific criteria they used to evaluate the different countries' healthcare systems, but the "US is 37th" figure has been widely reported over time. You don't have to agree with them if you don't want to, but that was the result of their study. Given all the problems we have with delivering healthcare to people across the board in this country, thanks to our insane financing model, it's v. hard to still try to argue that we (US) have the best healthcare system in the world, IMHO.
    When you figure in the financing model you speak of, yes, unfortunately I have to agree with you. I still honestly think that if you could somehow magically take that out of the equation, we'd probably move up quite a bit on that international list.....

    There is actually one aspect of what you were mentioning that I admit I overlooked completely.... and I have direct personal knowledge of it, because I have neighbors who go to Los Algodones, Mexico. It's only about a four hour drive from where I live here in Arizona - It's right across the border from Yuma, AZ. I have not gone there myself, but I personally know people who go there for dental and medical treatments at a fraction of the cost. They have told me that it's actually worth the drive for the money they save, and they probably either don't have health insurance, or it pays very little in their cases...
  2. by   DemeLVN2009
    I think it is flat out robbery to say that you don't have the money, and say that it is a shortage of something, but you take away from people that are struggling, and trying to make ends meat. I read that the United States, and Canada has the largest natural resources, than any other country in the world, but yet in still, Cananda's citizens are not effected by recessions, what's up with that. How can you pay someone $8 to $10 a hour being a CNA, and expect them to live decently, I was a CNA, and I am a LVN, can't get a job in a hospital, because I need a years experience, but if I did, would I make $20 a hours, like the CNA make in Cananda, NOT. Someone posted that a CNA make $10.hrly, working in a California hospital, I barely, survived making $17.92 as a hospital tech, working perdiem as hospital tech, I wouldn't in know way, work as a CNA making that less of money working at a hospital, gas money will eat that up, going to work everyday, and plus the stress of it all. God please Bless America, we need it.
  3. by   2BSure
    Quote from VickyRN

    I agree with you about the insurance companies. We could save so much $$$$ if these were entirely cut out of the healthcare equation. They are obscenely expensive and many employers are dropping or cutting down on coverage, as they can no longer afford to pay. Most people with insurance are getting fed up with the games they play, to avoid shelling out $$$ to cover legitimate healthcare claims.
    No kidding. It actually makes me feel sick to think that the present host of healthcare insurance companies would be involved in a universal-type healthcare plan. I have an image in my head of the CEOs rubbing their greasy paws together with glee while my tax dollars go in their pockets. UGH! Frankly, I would rather pay for state or federal employees to manage this.

    OK we are way off topic.

    Lots of RN jobs in my area just mainly in LTC and similar.
  4. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from DemeLVN2009
    I think it is flat out robbery to say that you don't have the money, and say that it is a shortage of something, but you take away from people that are struggling, and trying to make ends meat. I read that the United States, and Canada has the largest natural resources, than any other country in the world, but yet in still, Cananda's citizens are not effected by recessions, what's up with that. How can you pay someone $8 to $10 a hour being a CNA, and expect them to live decently, I was a CNA, and I am a LVN, can't get a job in a hospital, because I need a years experience, but if I did, would I make $20 a hours, like the CNA make in Cananda, NOT. Someone posted that a CNA make $10.hrly, working in a California hospital, I barely, survived making $17.92 as a hospital tech, working perdiem as hospital tech, I wouldn't in know way, work as a CNA making that less of money working at a hospital, gas money will eat that up, going to work everyday, and plus the stress of it all. God please Bless America, we need it.
    I survived just fine making $13/hr as a tech. I couldn't eat out all that much, buy all the things that I wanted, but survival? I survived just fine.

    I don't think people really understand what it means to survive, and use the term loosly.
  5. by   Valerie Salva
    Finally, a member of the media who sees reality.
  6. by   Valerie Salva
    Quote from js408
    Couple points to make.


    1. The health care system in America is not the envy of the world. Infact the World Health Organization ranks the U.S. as 37th among developed countries. We have an overall worse health care system than Morocco, Chile, and Costa Rica.
    2. The U.S. is number one in a few places, such as cost. The US spends the most amount of money overall and per-capita than any other country, yet there's 36 countries with better health-care than the U.S. How did we let this happen?
    3. People also fly out of the country every day to have medical procedures. There is a huge growing industry known as "medical tourism" where people seek affordable care and surgeries in other countries.
    4. Americans don't need "insurance" they need health-care. Insurance is something that guards you against a risk of an unlikely future event. I know for a fact that I will need glasses, contact lenses, an eye exam, routine dental care, doctor appointments, vaccinations, monthly medication, and so on. I know for a fact that I will need these things. Therefore, it's inappropriate to apply the insurance model to my health-care needs. I don't believe I will get in an a car accident in the next year, but the possibility exists, therefore auto-insurance makes sense. I know for a fact I will need health care, so insurance makes no sense.
    5. There should be no such thing as for-profit insurance companies. NOBODY should be getting rich off of my health-care problems. NO ONE should be deciding whether I get drugs or treatment based on how much profit they hope to extract from me. No one should be diverting my health-care money towards anything other than health-care.
    6. Spreading around risk is a good idea. The insurance companies spread around risk by refusing to insure people with health problems. This has perverted the system of insurance and should be stopped immediately.
    7. The best way to spread risk is to have one system that provides health-care to everyone. The bigger the risk pool, the lower the costs.

    Excellent post.
  7. by   DemeLVN2009
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    I survived just fine making $13/hr as a tech. I couldn't eat out all that much, buy all the things that I wanted, but survival? I survived just fine.
    I didn't say $13.00, I said $10.00. I worked last summer making $10.50, but I had to work for three weeks straight, plus I had to drive all the way to the other side of town. That was when gas was $5.00 A a gallon, I couldn't pay my rent here in California, making that amount, the average rents here is $1,200 a month, plus living expenses, and gas monies. I was just giving and example, on how America's health system is not fair to nurses, or assistive personnel jobs, we should get paid better, for all the work we do, I am a LVN, I deserve to make a little more than just a few dollars more than and experience CNA.
    I don't think people really understand what it means to survive, and use the term loosly.
    I know how to survive, I started out making $6.20 at a LTC as a CNA, I have 10 years experience as CNA, none as LVN, so with my experience as a CNA, I am well worth $10hrly.
  8. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from VickyRN

    I agree with you about the insurance companies. We could save so much $$$$ if these were entirely cut out of the healthcare equation. They are obscenely expensive and many employers are dropping or cutting down on coverage, as they can no longer afford to pay. Most people with insurance are getting fed up with the games they play, to avoid shelling out $$$ to cover legitimate healthcare claims.
    Bravo. It took over five years while working as a health insurance agent to change my beliefs about free market health insurance companies and how health care should be financed in the United States. I used to be a "believer" and believed the scare tactics put out by those supporting the current system. As a health insurance agent I saw exactly what the insurance companies' priorities are - their profits and stock dividends. Not providing health care. Not a responsibility to their insureds. Just money and liability, period.

    You know one of the largest insurers in the individual health insurance market in the United States pays 98% of clients' first year insurance premiums as commissions and stock dividends? This means they are in business to inflate their existence and wealth, not benefit the American consumer and pay for their health care. They could do this because they successfully avoided paying hardly any claims. It's a shell game of amplifying money for their own gain and avoiding liability.
  9. by   DemeLVN2009
    I heard on the radio, how Obama is trying to change the way HMO's operate. It was a certain Canadian woman, who was in a car accident in Canada, she had all her healthcare expenses covered. She later married a USA citizen, she applied to a HMO, she was denied because she had a pre-existing condition. I truly believe you, it is all about avoiding liability, its like not giving you the right diagnosis, so they want have to pay for the treatment, this is surely a evil.:angryfire
  10. by   whoknows56
    Quote from cm180
    it has been great reading everyone's comments. even though many aren't necessarily uplifting, it is nice to know my experiences aren't unique. like many of you, new grads in my area are having a real tough go of things. i recently heard from a nurse recruiter friend that her hospital received 300+ applications for one nursing position. the vast majority of them were from new grads and they just threw all of them in the trash and looked solely at the experienced candidates.

    i worry that with the bsn students, if things don't pick up in the next 6 months to a year, they will just leave nursing behind and get a job in another field. with student loans to pay back it is difficult to just wait it out, even if nursing is your dream job. that would be unfortunate, as i do think there will be a real need for nurses in 5-10 years. on the floor where i did my final rotation, 90% of the nurses were over 45. many could retire right now, as it's unionized, but are staying because they make good money and their pensions aren't looking so hot right now. i won't lie, some needed to go. we had a few that could no longer meet the physical demands bedside nursing calls for, but they also had families to provide for, kids in college, etc. my point is, at some point these people will retire, likely all at once. i hope there will still be enough nurses around to fill the void when that time comes.

    i changed careers to be a nurse, giving up a great job to do what i loved. when i entered school, the admissions counselors were still telling us we could walk into any job we wanted, make great money, etc as soon as we graduated. no one is selling that pipe dream to students anymore (although sadly, the mainstream media still is!), and without the job security, i think many students will think twice about going into nursing. it hurts my pride (and my bank account!) to not be able to get a job, any job, in a field i'm truly passionate about. if i were younger and didn't have family to think about, i would relocate, but unfortunately that's just not possible. one suggestion i do have for new grads is to stay in school if you can! i am in a direct entry msn program and, if things get really tough, i may just keep going right into the msn full time. this is not what i want to do-i think experience is important before getting a msn- but if no one will give me the opportunity to earn said experience than my hands are sort of tied.
    i was in that situation when i graduated college. couldn't get a job for a few months and picked up work outside of nursing. i do freelance medical writing for a couple of companies and make $1,500 a month doing so. i've learned that it is bad to have a single income source these days. once you lose that one income, you are **** up the bricks.
  11. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from DemeLVN2009
    I know how to survive, I started out making $6.20 at a LTC as a CNA, I have 10 years experience as CNA, none as LVN, so with my experience as a CNA, I am well worth $10hrly.
    ??? Huh ???

    You quoted my post, and then filled it with things that I didn't even say. If you are going to quote me, do not insert your own words in my quote to make it look like I said it. Using the quote function isn't difficult to do.
  12. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from demelvn2009
    originally posted by cardiacrn2006
    i survived just fine making $13/hr as a tech. i couldn't eat out all that much, buy all the things that i wanted, but survival? i survived just fine.
    i didn't say $13.00, i said $10.00. i worked last summer making $10.50, but i had to work for three weeks straight, plus i had to drive all the way to the other side of town. that was when gas was $5.00 a a gallon, i couldn't pay my rent here in california, making that amount, the average rents here is $1,200 a month, plus living expenses, and gas monies. i was just giving and example, on how america's health system is not fair to nurses, or assistive personnel jobs, we should get paid better, for all the work we do, i am a lvn, i deserve to make a little more than just a few dollars more than and experience cna.
    i don't think people really understand what it means to survive, and use the term loosly.

    i know how to survive, i started out making $6.20 at a ltc as a cna, i have 10 years experience as cna, none as lvn, so with my experience as a cna, i am well worth $10hrly.

    none of the words in that bolded area are mine.


    Quote from demelvn2009
    i didn't say $13.00, i said $10.00..
    no you didn't, you said 17.92

    Quote from demelvn2009
    someone posted that a cna make $10.hrly, working in a california hospital, i barely survived making $17.92 as a hospital tech,

close