Protection against 'problem' nurses - page 4
Nurses fired for stealing drugs would get reported. So would pharmacists who lost their jobs for making repeated and serious mistakes. Also listed would be respiratory therapists who hit and abused... Read More
Nov 19, '04Joined: Jun '04; Posts: 13in my opinion not everyone whose is accused is guilty, some people just have problems, personally and at work, when this happens i see a change in that person, and i have seen other nurses, accuse and imply things that are not true, i have seen perfectly good and respectably nurses fired for rumors of drug theft without any proof, i have seen them picked on by there peers and subjected to be left out and alianated because of another nurses ability to start a rumor and have it escalate causing someone who is innocent to loose her or his job , i think this stinks and i would like to see those superior individuals have the same thing happen to them, and as for administration they never know whats going on they are always up in the penthouse making decisions on patient care and not knowing anything about people
Nov 19, '04Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 661; Likes: 41Are so frequently targeted by those whose are comfortable in their position and don't want the boat rocked. Anyone see the film "Silkwood" ? Based on a true story.
Another person who suffered greatly for changing things was the first major league baseball player, Jackie Robinson.
I totally agree with the following:
1. Professional boards of practice, not just Nursing, operate more on a "you are guilty until proven innocent", do not have to hold to the protections provided us in the criminal justice system...consequently permitting abuses to occur. Politics can be a strong motivater...
2. If the facilities had been doing their job in the first place, Cullen would have not been allowed to continue. But, for the facilities, it is easier to let the suspicious person go, and be glad they are no longer the facility's problem...than attempt to PROVE a wrongdoing. I'm sure the risk management arm of the facilities ADVISE AGAINST the facility pursuing action. This is not unlike how the abuse scandals in the Catholic Church spun out of control. Not only to underscore, as someone else has mentioned, that no facility wants the publicity that would come of the public knowing that such a scumbag was hired/working at their facility.
In short, these are the problems:
a. worker fired. Worker retaliates by counter-suing the facility, and making a ruckus. Bad publicity. Who knows what is true?
b. worker fired. Criminal charges filed. Bad publicity for the hiring facility.
3. Can anyone tell me how this new proposal would have kept Cullen from slipping through the cracks? I seriously doubt that it would.
I think this is just another addition to the "full-employment act for lawyers".
Nov 19, '04Joined: Nov '04; Posts: 14I read about a bad nurse data bank. Also, some states publish the names in the newsletters every quarter.
Nov 20, '04Joined: May '03; Posts: 893; Likes: 53na/r nar/s
I am wondering what these titles are or stand for?
Nov 20, '04Joined: Nov '04; Posts: 111; Likes: 7One of the reasons I quit teaching Sunday School and eventually changed churches was the ease with which people said "let's pray for them..." Of course you pray for them, it's a given. I finally got tired of repeatedly suggesting we get up off our cassarole eating butts and DO for them. This isn't the first, nor probably the last church where I experienced that attitude. If the churches really did their job, we wouldn't have as much welfare, big government or general misery as we do in this world. And I stand on this statement be the churches Christian, Jewish, Moslem, or whatever.
My point is, "let's pray for US", and let's do for US. There are enough good minds on this board to build sites to rate employers and air their dirty little laundry for a change, before we commit to work for them. And let me say, that there are some darned good employers out there. Unfortunately the bad outweigh the good, or else a lot of nurses are just griping to hear themselves on these forums and in day to day encounters. I doubt that that is the case. Is it possible that a few or many of us can actually work together without competition and politics amonst ourselves to put the stall on some of these evil money grubbing 'people factories'? Is it possible that a portion of the M.D.s would like to see MORE CARING AND EFFICIENT nurses freed from some of the pettiness, fear and infighting that impacts negitively on the treatment of their patients? We are not just pieces of meat, nor are we automatons.
Nursing does not necessarily need unions. We need to fight fire with fire, and that just may start with employees firing a few employers for a change. Harmonious departments who work together and stand together with a minimum of friction are far more threatening than any union. There is nothing specific for the hostile employer to strike out at in this case, and the usual solution is complete department turnover. I've seen it happen more than once. Then some pre-ordained 'fall guy' on Mahogony Row pays the price.
It is not easy to visualize or to take those first few steps into a new paradigm. (Actually, I'm old enough that it might be a step back in time....) But we have R.N. legal consultants, educators, specialty nurses, ethicists on this board, and together, I give us credit for the ability to reach out beyond this board, build sites, and turn the tables on these less than desireable employers. We have worldwide access, intelligence, experience and caring hearts as our assets. And we do it not only for ourselves, but for the patients that we have been expected to shuffle through like cattle, the dedicated M.D.s that work 'till they drop, the ancillary personell (who are also professionals), supervisors who finally sold out their integrity, but may still be salvaged, and so ad infinitum.
I hope I don't sound like Karl Marx, but there have been many cases throughout history of populations who suffered under the power of economic slavery. The longer it's put off, the worse the backlash is going to be. And like it or not, a backlash will happen regardless, and sometimes it can be pretty ugly. Working proactively, we can change the status quo legally, peaceably, anonymously, ethically, and any step forward is worth the work. Or are we content to keep griping? I hardly think a board dedicated to negative portrayal of nurses on TV is true advocacy.
Hit the scoundrels in the pocketbook, eventually it will come to light what their motivations are, regardless of their pollyanna commercials. Patients have free clinics, university hospitals, doc in the box operations to fall back on, and they will need staff. We can give great care to patients utilizing these entities, and what we can't do there, the big stuff, I'm sure that these institutions who boast of being '...one of the top 100 hospitals in the country' that every town has (?) will take all the buisness they can.
Please, let's see if we can get something going. For those too young to hear or understand some of the horror stories, they exist. Don't bet that you'll work at the same place after 50 y/o and build up a nice little retirement egg. I'd just like to see the start of positive change in my lifetime.
Let's pray for us....
Whew....Last edit by Crumbwannabe on Nov 20, '04
Nov 21, '04Joined: Nov '04; Posts: 111; Likes: 7Hi,
Just found another profiling agency http://www.adldata.com/index.html. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Check out their list of services.
I maintain that if an employer wants to see the status of an employee minus the "who shot John" stories (or at least a minimum) they can find info and archives by years at their BON. Of course your accuser remains confidential, so there goes the right to confront your accuser.
Ideas...If we can get the aforementioned employer profiling site started, I believe I can get some help from my stepson who builds sites for a living. We already have the site for magnet hospitals, so let's brainstorm some objective and fair criteria for what constitutes a bad employer. Please, believe me, I am not advocating some lunatic fringe site. But we do need to balance the scales and protect ourselves.
I suggest once the proposed site is up, we accumulate personell policies, employment contracts, evaluation tools, blank incident reports, and any other current paperwork that can be used to influence the fate of an employee, then group them by individual hospitals in individual cities. No hearsay, no fraud, no slander, simply the facts. No HIPPA violations. Eventually, mistreated employees could submit facsimilies of any dishonest dealings, identifying info removed.
Anonymity is essential. There are ways of doing this via e-mail drops, PGP, et.c. . Once the original site is started, if it grows, we can split into webmasters in a district. Also, consider not-for-profit status.
Build a database bank of lawyers, paralegals and nurse consultants. Sometimes it's hard to find a lawyer when you need one, let alone one who cares to listen. And you don't need a lawyer for a lot of this sort of thing.
A database of counselors, therapists, spiritual counsel, nurses of good will who would agree to help in crisis situations. A sort of electronic real time "on call". This is nothing outrageous, I used work in a free group who served to defuse and debrief traumatized healthcare workers, firemen, and police or anyone else who needed us. We would travel 50 mile radius to those in need. Our biggest problem was getting the word out that we were available to help. Bad advertizing I suppose. In short, a mistreated employee is in need of someone to help them get their thoughts straight again, sometimes get them out of emotional shock, and help with direction and available resources and remedies. Ever try to figure out where to start on Worker's Comp, for example?
I really think this thing could fly if we keep in mind that we are there to take care of our own.
And by the way, can you believe TAPAN (sp?) has a merchandise section?
Talk about poor taste...Last edit by Crumbwannabe on Nov 21, '04
Nov 21, '04Occupation: Nursing Faculty Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research ; From: US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 8,317; Likes: 6,285Crumb- that's a great idea! I'm game.
Nov 21, '04Occupation: R.N. Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 348; Likes: 7Lets see, how does the old saying go....if it ain't broke....well, this baby is broke. I for one have worked along side of a drug addict, who stole medications that caused our floor much distress. The sad ending to her story was, after of course being fired under suspicion of stealing narcs from numerous hospitals, this young mother of 5 children died of a overdose at her home.Maybe if a system was in place to prevent rehiring this addict and supplying her easy assess to medications, she may have gotten the help she needed and 5 children would have thier mother alive ! Remember, a system that would follow through with problem nurses would be good for all of us.
Nov 21, '04Joined: Nov '04; Posts: 111; Likes: 7Quote from stbernardclubI have worked alongside addicts, a few who met their maker on ODs. My proposal, if you have read my posts, would provide counselors on a voluntary basis and anonimity. Certainly acknowledgement of the problem is essential to getting help, but we must remember that there are so few who can be trusted.Lets see, how does the old saying go....if it ain't broke....well, this baby is broke. I for one have worked along side of a drug addict, who stole medications that caused our floor much distress. The sad ending to her story was, after of course being fired under suspicion of stealing narcs from numerous hospitals, this young mother of 5 children died of a overdose at her home.Maybe if a system was in place to prevent rehiring this addict and supplying her easy assess to medications, she may have gotten the help she needed and 5 children would have thier mother alive ! Remember, a system that would follow through with problem nurses would be good for all of us.
Employee assistance is bunk. 3 free visits to the greatest therapist on earth aren't going to do much if anything, and who is really going to open themselves up to their employer's choice of counselor except a desperate, coerced, or very naieve(sp?) person? If an employer is unethical, they aren't going to contract with someone who won't be their puppet. I have noted that in more than a few cases, these services are offered to "problem employees". Too easy to turn into a data gathering service, and at best, the counselors are working off their public service contracts for their education, or just can't find a job anywhere else.
My proposal would, if supported by enough concerned professionals, allow for a true counselor-patient confidentiality. I have seen as a volunteer in a free clinic that deals can be cut with other professionals for discount services. Your insurance claims follow you.
Get enough people together, we may be able to get a group policy specific to counseling for specific diagnoses. It's worth a try.
Nov 21, '04Joined: Nov '04; Posts: 111; Likes: 7Quote from lgflaminiWow, my first comrade in an uphill fight. Send me an e-mail, tell me at length what you think.Crumb- that's a great idea! I'm game.
I will start a new thread devoted to this subject called 'Cui Bono'.
Nov 21, '04Joined: Apr '03; Posts: 579; Likes: 398Quote from stbernardclubWho decides what constitutes a "problem nurse?" What type of evidence proves that someone is a "problem nurse?" What type of follow through would a blacklist provide? What type of recourse or protection would the falsely accused "problem nurses" receive? I see no indication that this system would be good for any of us.Remember, a system that would follow through with problem nurses would be good for all of us.
Nov 22, '04Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 107; Likes: 1Quote from brianI couldn't get the link to work. Did it say anything about bad doctors? We all know it's malpractice that is driving up the cost of health care, right????Nurses fired for stealing drugs would get reported. So would pharmacists who lost their jobs for making repeated and serious mistakes. Also listed would be respiratory therapists who hit and abused their patients.
The very worst and most dangerous health care workers would be tracked by a federal data bank under a plan proposed yesterday by New Jersey's two U.S. senators. Sen. Jon Corzine (D.-N.J.) said he wanted to "break the chain of silence" that he blamed for allowing accused killer nurse Charles Cullen to move from hospital to hospital. Corzine and Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D.-N.J.) plan to introduce the bill next week.
Full Story: http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey...8373140500.xml
Nov 23, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 17 year(s) of experience ; From: US ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 1,427; Likes: 376Quote from stbernardclubHow about a system that follows through with problem administration at problem hospitals? Talk about fixing something thats broke!!Lets see, how does the old saying go....if it ain't broke....well, this baby is broke. I for one have worked along side of a drug addict, who stole medications that caused our floor much distress. The sad ending to her story was, after of course being fired under suspicion of stealing narcs from numerous hospitals, this young mother of 5 children died of a overdose at her home.Maybe if a system was in place to prevent rehiring this addict and supplying her easy assess to medications, she may have gotten the help she needed and 5 children would have thier mother alive ! Remember, a system that would follow through with problem nurses would be good for all of us.
The last drug addict that I worked with was fired and thrown to the wolves put on the "Group One" blacklist and had to put his treatment program on a Visa card because he had to pay for it himself.
I've never been addicted to drugs and maybe do not understand whatever makes a nurse start taking narcotics but I firmly believe that we need to take care of our own and my hospital failed him when he needed them most.