Pregnant woman removed from life support? - page 3
Such a tragic, and interesting case. Thoughts?... Read More
Dec 23, '13Occupation: ER RN Specialty: 5 year(s) of experience in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU ; From: US ; Joined: May '11; Posts: 932; Likes: 2,950Quote from tigerRN2013No we don't advocate for life. Nurses advocate for their pt. whether it's a pt wanting an abortion, a pt wanting to die with dignity or a pt not wanting to be kept alive as a human incubator. What makes a fetus loos subtle life worth more than the mothers needs? If you have such a narrow view of what nursing is, you really need to open your eyes.It's so sad to see so many nurses (people who are supposed to advocate for life and people's wellbeing) acting as though a child who is not our definition of 'normal' and healthy is an unworthy burden and undeserving of life or our care. How can people not see that killing a disabled child is wrong?
Dec 23, '13Joined: Oct '10; Posts: 7,410; Likes: 16,479Quote from tigerRN2013No one is talking about "killing a disabled child." First of all, there is no child yet and second, we have no idea what level of disability or lack thereof it would have in the future. We're talking about honoring the woman's wishes. She specifically stated to her husband that she would not want to be kept alive by artificial means.It's so sad to see so many nurses (people who are supposed to advocate for life and people's wellbeing) acting as though a child who is not our definition of 'normal' and healthy is an unworthy burden and undeserving of life or our care. How can people not see that killing a disabled child is wrong?
There are also plenty of situations where nurses don't "advocate for life." I advocate for my patients and, were I this woman's nurse, I'd be advocating for withdrawal of support per her/her husband's wishes.
Quote from itzvalerieThat's nice for you but I fail to see what relevance it has to this situation. This woman stated that she did NOT want to be kept alive by artificial means.Uh, yes. They decided to have a child. If my child is born with birth defects I will love him/her NO MATTER WHAT. To act like this baby is going to be a "pain" to him really makes me sick. It will be the only link to his wife he will have. I hope they keep her alive until the baby can be born.
I live in Texas & even if I signed a DNR, if I was pregnant I would want my body to be kept alive until the baby could be born.
Dec 23, '13Joined: Dec '13; Posts: 2,453; Likes: 17,915Quote from tigerRN2013Prolife person here. Yet, this isn't someone purposefully killing their unborn child. It's a father who wishes to stop expensive, extraordinary means to save a life at an astronomical priceIt's so sad to see so many nurses (people who are supposed to advocate for life and people's wellbeing) acting as though a child who is not our definition of 'normal' and healthy is an unworthy burden and undeserving of life or our care. How can people not see that killing a disabled child is wrong?
How much money and resources will that take out of our communal healthcare pot? It will increase the taxpayer and insurance payer load, with a most likely poor outcome. And, the father of the child is against this. He feels like the outcome will likely be a burden on both him and society.
Dec 23, '13Occupation: RN Specialty: ICU ; From: US ; Joined: Jul '09; Posts: 1,354; Likes: 2,207It just seems crazy to have such a black and white law about something with so many shades of gray...I mean what if the situation was different- what if the woman was 2 weeks pregnant, what if she wasn't brain dead, and was experiencing significant amounts of pain and suffering (and would never be able to recover any reasonable quality of life)? I mean these are obviously extreme situations, but so many factors go into a medical situation as complex as this one.
The biggest thing to me is, if you look at this realistically, there is a strong possibility that this baby will be severely brain damaged if it even survives...not to mention a multitude of other possible complications it would have r/t anoxia. This woman was dead- without a pulse, without circulating oxygen, for who knows how long. 14 weeks is nowhere even close to viability...I'm not sure what these politicians, whomever made this law, think they're saving. This sort of thing needs to be decided by doctors, in my opinion- on a case by case basis.
Dec 23, '13Occupation: Registered Professional Nurse Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in ED ; From: US ; Joined: Oct '08; Posts: 589; Likes: 1,436It is sad to think that women in these situations are merely human incubators. I agree, it is a very gray area. Would it be more acceptable if she were 35 weeks pregnant and the life support would only be to keep her alive long enough to deliver the baby? At 14 weeks, she has a long way to go to viability. I know from the example I gave before, my son's friend's mother was delivered at 8 months because her body was finally just wearing out. She had been on life support for four months. It would be a double tragedy if the baby is born stillborn or with severe neurological deficits. How sad for the family.
Dec 24, '13Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 41,761; Likes: 48,081Report: Pregnant woman kept on life support against husband's wishes - CBS News
This links a case in California about a young girl who had complications after surgery and the fight to keep her on a vent.
This is hard . . . if the baby is viable there are only a few more weeks to go. I agree that I wish there was a way to know for sure. There are cases where babies have been born normal.
And cases where they have not.
Dec 24, '13Joined: Dec '08; Posts: 3,560; Likes: 6,295Since the husband is the legal next of kin, he should decide. The odd thing is that Texas has a futile care law which allows hospitals to discontinue life support if a case is deemed hopeless, even if the next of kin object.
Dec 24, '13Joined: Dec '08; Posts: 3,571; Likes: 10,064If that baby is born and of good health, pray it never finds out about its mother. I would not be able to live with myself knowing my mom was tortured like that so that I could be born. I know everyone might not agree with me, but man, no way no how.
Dec 24, '13Joined: Dec '13; Posts: 2,453; Likes: 17,915Quote from That GuyBrain dead people can't really be tortured.If that baby is born and of good health, pray it never finds out about its mother. I would not be able to live with myself knowing my mom was tortured like that so that I could be born. I know everyone might not agree with me, but man, no way no how.
Dec 24, '13Occupation: RN Specialty: ICU ; From: US ; Joined: Jul '09; Posts: 1,354; Likes: 2,207
fe-tus noun \ˈfē-təs\ : a human being or animal in the later stages of development before it is born
This is not a matter of killing a disabled child...it is a matter of a dead woman's body being used to continue developing a non-viable fetus. *I have read one article that says she is brain dead; I am not sure if it is that though.* Not only that, but mother and fetus were ANOXIC for an unknown period of time. As educated healthcare professionals, this woman and man knew what people deal with after cardiac arrest (again...I assume when they say he performed CPR that this is what happened...as opposed to "just" respiratory arrest). She also lost her brother in an accident 4 years ago, further solidifying her wish to avoid extraordinary measures should something happen.
The fetus was 16 weeks at the time of the incident...far, far away from viability. Now it has to survive months of developing in a woman in intensive care with catastrophic damage to her body on top of the unknown amount of time that it went without oxygen. PLUS being taken at the edge of viability as people are talking about delivery between 24-28 weeks. A triple-whammy. The husband/father does not want to continue with this course of action yet he is being forced...and guess who will be taking care of a possibly severely disabled child should s/he even survive...I don't see the state picking up the tab on this one.
Like the 13-year-old girl in California...every possible outcome here is tragic, and my heart truly goes out to the family, friends, and staff involved.
Dec 24, '13Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in HH/peds vent/Rehab/clinical ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '10; Posts: 3,712; Likes: 9,272Sometimes its the nurses job to advocate for death. A quiet, uncomplicated, peaceful death. That's the incredibly difficult job of a hospice nurse.
Dec 24, '13Occupation: RN Specialty: ICU ; From: US ; Joined: Jul '09; Posts: 1,354; Likes: 2,207Quote from itzvalerieActually, the couple already has a child together.It will be the only link to his wife he will have.
Dec 24, '13Occupation: Critical Care Specialty: 2 year(s) of experience in Critical Care & Acute Care ; Joined: Jul '12; Posts: 88; Likes: 71Just adding that the source I heard said the woman's brother was on life support following a MVA and she was just traumatized from the situation. This is why her and her husband had the numerous talks about dnr, prolonged life etc...I read she went into cardiac arrest and was pronounced brain dead (not sure if yahoo is reliable here or not). I know that there is a possibility the baby suffered oxygen deprivation so severe that it will have tremendous disabilities. However, there is also a chance that it will be a miracle child and survive the odds. Yet, she has specific wishes and the husband probably feels the child will not be well and does not want to have his wife on artificial means for the next few months, then be made comfort care and die. Then have a baby that dies down the road a few days or weeks. Either way it is such a sad situation. I can see both sides and frankly do not know the right thing to do since it appears one would want to see if the child survives and thrives or worse end up losing both child and mother after she was maintained artificially and that just prolongs suffering. So sad, not to bring up anything anyone would find fault with but I really hope a miracle happens, whether you believe in god or not this man deserves something good to happen and I hope it is a healthy baby!