Pope declares feeding tubes a 'moral obligation' - page 2
From: USA Today, April 2, 2004 Pope John Paul II has announced emphatically that it is "morally obligatory" to continue artificial feeding and hydration for people in a persistent vegetative... Read More
Apr 5, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Feb '03; Posts: 1,250; Likes: 62Quote from caroladybellelol :chuckleWell, shall we bill him in the Vatican for the procedures.
Many Catholics (I am Catholic) believe the church law of papal infallibility. Which means that the pope cannot say anything that God does not approve of. God would not allow it. With that said it is easy to see how his opinion can stronly influence many Catholics.
I have told my family that in no way would I want a feeding tube if there was no hope of meaningful recovery for me. I almost vomit at the smell of Jevity now- couldn't imagine months or years of receiving it. And truthfully it makes me so sad seeing so many contracted, demented, elderly patients whose life consists of tube feedings, blood transfusions, foley's, and constant diarrhea. To just lay in a hospital bed day in and day out with no hope of getting better. Usually NPO and the only water they get in their mouth is from a swab. Seems like pure torture to me.
Apr 5, '04Occupation: Home Health Patient Education Resource Nurse Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Hemodialysis, Home Health ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 21,359; Likes: 7,204This is nonsense. People need to think for themselves. :stone
Apr 5, '04Occupation: ER RN Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 5,322; Likes: 1,329I agree Jnette. As a former Catholic, and an employee of a Catholic hospital, I just might have to find myself a new job if the hospital changes policy because of this. It just rubs me way the wrong way to treat people like this.
Apr 5, '04Joined: Nov '02; Posts: 6,085; Likes: 9,212We had a local priest come and tell one of our LTC patients she was committing suicide because she had chosen to stop chemo therapy...she was 87 years old. We told the local church about that and next thing we knew, the guy had been transfered to South America....let people make their own decisions.
Apr 5, '04Occupation: L.P.N. in LTC Specialty: med surg,homecare,hospice ; Joined: Aug '00; Posts: 4,682; Likes: 4,827What are these messages from the Pope called and where can one find them listed? I would like to read more about the Catholic church's stand on things...Is there a link to the Vatican or something? (www.askthepope.com?)
Apr 5, '04Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,593; Likes: 17,394It's so strange that one can't interfere with nature and use birth control, yet can artificially feed. The Pontiff must have some strange conversations with God indeed.
Apr 5, '04Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,593; Likes: 17,394Quote from jnetteIt's only been relative recent in history that Catholics were encourged to read their Bible, rather than have priests interprete it for them. Many religions have "do's and don'ts" on how to behave.This is nonsense. People need to think for themselves. :stone
Apr 5, '04Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 41,761; Likes: 48,081Quote from 3rdShiftGuyInteresting point Tweety . . .It's so strange that one can't interfere with nature and use birth control, yet can artificially feed. The Pontiff must have some strange conversations with God indeed.
I believe the Pope is speaking to Catholics although I'm sure he wants his opinion to be considered by others as well.
If this is just a matter of removing a feeding tube and stopping hydration after you have started a feeding tube and have been hydrating someone, I can see his point from a moral point of view. You are taking an action that will cause the death of someone.
From what I read, he wasn't saying you couldn't have advance directives stating you don't want a feeding tube in the first place.
All the more reason, as we discussed on the Terri Schiavo thread, to have this all taken care of early.
And to be fair to the Catholics who don't want to see their faith bend whichever way the wind is blowing, they would have no faith if that kept happening. Over years of change you wouldn't recognize it.
I myself see nothing in the bible that says you can't use birth control, that priests have to be celibate and unmarried. I also don't believe in soul sleep or reincarnation or karma or not taking blood products. But I'm not going to charge into a faith I'm not a part of and try to change it. To each their own.
If I grew up in a faith I can no longer be a part of then I need to leave and find one I can be a part of.
I guess I don't think it is fair to ask the faith to change for me. Asking the Catholic Church to change hundreds of years of tenets for individuals seems wrong to me. Those Catholics who want a more permissive church need to find one.
Apr 6, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in Medical Surgical ; From: US ; Joined: May '01; Posts: 674; Likes: 1,217Amen, Stevielynn!
The Pope has a right, and yes, a duty to say whatever he believes God is telling him to say. He is not an elected official, who has to worry about his "poll numbers". It is not his calling to change what he believes God wants to "keep in step with modern Catholics." It is up to modern Catholics to keep in step with God. If they choose not to believe in what the Pope is saying, they can quit being Catholics. It's all part of the same process.
And I'm not even Catholic.
Apr 6, '04Specialty: Getting gingerale ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 6,243; Likes: 1,421Quote from Owney:angryfire
I wonder if I'll burn in hell? I'm gonna get some tattoos. The one on my sternum will say, "NO CPR", on my epigastrum, "NO G-TUBE", and on my lower abdomen, "AND NO FOLEY EITHER, D*MN*T!"
Then again, I probably should get an advanced directive/durable power of attorney. I'll send one to the Vatican so the Pope won't act surprised when I get with him upstairs. :hatparty:
hahaha. I like the tatoo idea. A health care proxy with NO GT, JT, or NGT should do nicely! Holy Mackeral indeed. :hatparty:
Apr 6, '04Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 50I wrote in no feeding tube EVER. Hubby is aware of this.
Apr 6, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 481. tattoos......im getting "DNR" on my chest and "Turn Q2" on my butt
2. but seriously i dont believe i need anyone to be a "middle man" between me and God....The pope is just a man himself...no "closer" to God than me or the preacher at my little town church. If he wants to make such a declaration as being what God wants done...he needs to quote a scripture reference to back up why he says this.