Nursing student alleges discrimination - page 2

This is very sad as we really need more Chinese speaking nurses here. What is even sadder is that as an immigrant, I am all to familiar with the xenophobia here in NZ. English is my first language... Read More

  1. by   tinkerbell1963
    Quote from FireStarterRN
    I believe that healthcare workers in an English speaking nation need to be able to fluently and clearly speak English. This woman would better spend the next year improving her English skills, rather than pursuing a lawsuit.


    I completely agree If we were to go to a foriegn country to work where language and communication was a huge part of the job they would demand we speak clearly and 100 percent understandable If your accent is to strong and people cant understand you they you cant be a effective nurse. just my 2 cents
  2. by   blue note
    Quote from tinkerbell1963
    I completely agree If we were to go to a foriegn country to work where language and communication was a huge part of the job they would demand we speak clearly and 100 percent understandable If your accent is to strong and people cant understand you they you cant be a effective nurse. just my 2 cents
    I agree, and it should be applied to all people who work in health care, not just nurses, and including doctors.
  3. by   jm394
    Quote from nerdtonurse?
    I am bilingual, but I'd be ramping up my Spanish much, MUCH further than my 3 years of it in college -- I've written spanish language interfaces for computer programs, and have given computer training in Spanish, I may be able to read Cervantes's La Galatea and Don Quixote in the originial Spanish, but that doesn't mean I'd feel comfortable working as a nurse in Mexico City or Madrid. Fluency in a language doesn't automatically imply fluency in the specialized sub-language of nursing. Just because I can discuss "los bancos de datos" doesn't mean I know how to discuss "bladder training" in Spanish....
    I agree. I'm bilingual in English and Vietnamese. I have more than five years of Vietnamese classes, I've translated literary works from Viet to English, lived in Vietnam for just around two years, feel comfortable watching TV, having normal conversations, and handling everyday life in Vietnamese, but I probably wouldn't survive a university level science-course in a Vietnamese institution. The specialized vocabulary, the speed of information, and the absolute importance of getting every bit of data right is just overwhelming.

    Now I'm not saying that there wasn't discrimination in this young lady's case, none of us know the details of the case so it's impossible to judge. The percentage of Chinese nationals in the program suggests that perhaps this is her issue more than the school's, but that's just conjecture.

    I do know that a BA in English from a foreign university, and even a job as an english teacher in said country, does not necessarily denote fluency in spoken or technical English. This is why there's such a premium on native speakers coming in to teach English at all levels in countries such as China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan and others (I'm sure other countries import English teachers, but they're outside my own experience). In fact, my wife, who is not a trained teacher, but IS a native English speaker, worked in Vietnam teaching English to a group of university faculty. Some of those faculty were English teachers at their school. They mostly needed lots of conversational experience and vocab development for their applications to study in English-speaking countries. Some of them had good IELTS and TOEFL(sp?) scores.

    I also agree that here in the US we need diversity in workplace because of the inherent cultural diversity of the communities we serve. I've never been to NZ, but I assume that to a greater or lesser extent it's the same there. But it's important that students/nurses have the basic English skills to function effectively, both for the sake of their careers after nursing school, and for their patients' sake.
  4. by   FireStarterRN
    I think most Americans really like Chinese people, as a rule. Asians are, percentage wise, over represented in institutions of higher learning. People tend to stereotype Asians positively, generalizing that they are quiet, hard working, intelligent, diligent, courteous, respectful, etc. There aren't a lot of negatives stereotypes about Chinese people.
  5. by   BradleyRN
    Quote from chigap
    I wish people would read the article before they jump to conclusions. This woman scored a 6.5 on her IELTS (pretty good) and has a BA in English. Furthermore, instuctors here are called "tutors." I would guess that many Americans outside of my circle are just as racist as NZers when it comes to the Chinese.
    Excuse me, but i read the article. Feel free to take a hostile tone if you choose, but i did not know that "tutors" are called "instructors". Nor did i realize that if you can get a BA in English, then nursing school would be a cakewalk. I just stated the facts.The percentage of Chinese students increases from the first year to the third, demonstrating that more "non-Chinese" people must fail than Chinese people. Analyze those stats yourself, and see what conclusions you reach. The only one i see jumping to conclusions here is YOU! :spin:
  6. by   ANnot4me
    Sorry, but I live in New Zealand and have tried to explain that this is a serious problem here. NZ survives on their dairy trade with China, Chinese students, immigration and tourism. While NZ has branded itself as a Utopia and a progressive society, it is not in may ways. Barely a day passes here that I do not hear a racist comment or an anti-American comment (even in my former workplace -- one of the largest hospitals in the country). We have a huge Chinese population here and very few nurses who are Chinese speakers.

    Immigration is big business here and many people want the money, but do not want the people. This is a major problem here for all immigrants (including myself) and that is why I posted this article. People should be able to see what they may face by immigrating here. They may invite you in, take your money and then tell you that you aren't really welcome.
  7. by   ANnot4me
    I just want to say to those bilingual folks here that I would hope that you would be able to be a competent nurse in Mexico or Vietnam if you got your degree there and in that language. The rationale behind your argument is flawed.

    I am really shocked at the lack of perspective here and the fact that so many people have chosen to argue a point that totally invalidates my experience in NZ. This is especially shocking as nobody in this conversation is even living here.
  8. by   yetanotheramanda
    Quote from chigap
    Sorry, but I live in New Zealand and have tried to explain that this is a serious problem here. NZ survives on their dairy trade with China, Chinese students, immigration and tourism. While NZ has branded itself as a Utopia and a progressive society, it is not in may ways. Barely a day passes here that I do not hear a racist comment or an anti-American comment (even in my former workplace -- one of the largest hospitals in the country). We have a huge Chinese population here and very few nurses who are Chinese speakers.

    Immigration is big business here and many people want the money, but do not want the people. This is a major problem here for all immigrants (including myself) and that is why I posted this article. People should be able to see what they may face by immigrating here. They may invite you in, take your money and then tell you that you aren't really welcome.

    sorry you have faced discrimination, that totally sucks. Racist people are jerks!
    However, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on this lady's bandwagon. If she is suing falsly in the name of discrimination (as it seems to me and others, apparently) then she is devaluing the pain felt by people who are really discriminated against.
  9. by   FireStarterRN
    Yes, there are many who use the discrimination card as a legal tool to unjustly avoid deserved consequences of one sort or another.
  10. by   jm394
    Quote from chigap
    I just want to say to those bilingual folks here that I would hope that you would be able to be a competent nurse in Mexico or Vietnam if you got your degree there and in that language. The rationale behind your argument is flawed.

    I am really shocked at the lack of perspective here and the fact that so many people have chosen to argue a point that totally invalidates my experience in NZ. This is especially shocking as nobody in this conversation is even living here.
    Well, I don't think my rationale is flawed. I think it's pretty sound. We're not arguing against your experience, your experience is not what you presented us with. You presented us with an article and we're simply responding to the article. I think we may have exhausted the limits of useful replies on this article. It's not productive to get into a my experience vs. your experience argument because we all obviously have our own backgrounds and personal perspectives gained over our lives.

    I will say that many of us living in the US live in INCREDIBLY multicultural environments and confront many of the issues that seem to be up for discussion here in our personal and professional lives.

    I've never been to New Zealand. I'd love to go and be able to judge for myself what kind of society it is. If you send me a ticket I'll be happy to respond to your experiences more directly, and perhaps with the particular perspective you're looking for. And some xanax for the flight please! (trying to lighten mood with humor)
  11. by   jm394
    Note: My reading of the article did not suggest that she earned her BA in New Zealand. If she came as a skilled worker my assumption is that her BA is from a Chinese institution. Maybe I'm wrong? Otherwise I agree, I think that most people who earn a four-year degree in a particular language would be able to work in that language. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here.
  12. by   sabrino76
    This particular posting or rather argument, should in some way highlight the reality of what life is for a student nurse from an ethnic minority community. For those who are not and whom continue to make postings implying that there must be a different reason for her sad story, i say to you , you can not understand how it feels to be subjected or looked at differently just because you have an accent. In my opinion that is arrogant. As an African-British nurse, having done my nursing study in the u.k it was evident that majority of the Tutors were there for all students, however when it came to practicals or presentations, same old excuse of you did not pass because of communication skills prevails??? even for those born here. It is becoming all too familiar and too vague and for argument sake why in the final year?
    Racism or any type of ism is alive and well in any profession and to deny it in nursing/students will be a big joke because it is there for you to see. I know friends whom were recruited to NZ with similiar experiences describing their work place as "you can feel it in the air". While i fault the Chinese student for dropping out, the bone of contention should not be missed out or understated if nursing is to be made more attractive and a true representation of its workforce.
  13. by   Batman24
    Quote from leslie :-D
    well, by suing, others will be able to eval her skill in talking english.
    if she communicates intelligibly, she will likely win.
    if not, i hope she accepts it and continues in augmenting her abilities.

    i wish her well.

    leslie
    That's how I see it too.

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