Nursing Schools Rejected 41,000 Qualified Applicants Over Lack of Educators - page 2

nursing schools reject increased number of applicants over lack of ... kaiser - washington,dc,usa nursing schools nationwide rejected more than 41,000 qualified applicants in 2005,... Read More

  1. by   lee1
    Quote from HARRN2b
    What about bringing in foreigners to teach? I am just thinking out loud.

    I guess only a current nursing professor could answer this question. BUT, if it turns out anything like the foreign professors who currently teach science/math courses in our universities now, I can only say they BETTER speak understandable ENGLISH and have the right credentials to teach AMERICAN nursing. Are there universal standards for Nursing????
  2. by   bbfw2
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    just a thought
    i know that there is not any time when you can't use more money but when your kids are on their own, your loans are paid off, qualifiy yourself to bring the next generation of nurses to fruitation
    I'd love to upgrade my RN to a BN, and beyond, but they need to bring down the cost of nursing education. I just can not afford to return to school.
  3. by   hope3456
    And what constitutes a 'qualified' candidate?? IMHO, not everyone who applies is qualified and not everyone who is accepted is qualified - at least here in Colorado (at the CC's). For example, applicants only need to take a few basic prereq classes before applying to the nursing program - so long as they passed these classes with a 2.0 they are 'accepted' and then put on the waiting list - which is 3 years long. No one is really turned away. However, what I find questionable is the ridiculously high rates of students getting 'dropped' from the program. The program I went to was alot harder and time consuming than many prospective students think. The latest class that graduated...only 54%of the students that started actually finished! Something wrong with this picture??
  4. by   traumaRUs
    Bringing in foreign-trained nurses to teach is probably not the answer. There is no standard world-wide nursing education.

    As to allowing people with experience to teach versus an advanced degree, I was of the same opinion just a few years ago. I have 14 years of experience (almost all critical care). While I am a very qualified nurse, I did not have the ability to teach. That is something that is learned via coursework in education, management and leadership as well the dreaded theory courses.
  5. by   romie
    I am not sure lowering the standards is the answer to the shortage of education professionals. Do you think the solution to a hospital nursing shortage would be to hire less educated/ less qualified people or do you think the solution is to pay higher wages? I am sure many of you are enjoying the higher wages that are the result of the nursing shortage.

    Perhaps increasing the salaries of PhD and MSN prepared faculty would entice more nurses into academia, just as increasing hospital wages increases the number of candidates for nursing positions.

    Regardless of the level of instruction, be it ADN or MSN level nursing education, nurse educators should have a minimum educational preparation in principals of nursing education, curriculum design, ect. We expect teachers of 3 grade math to have some kind of educator preparation, don't you think an educator preparing future nurses hold other people's lives in their hands should have some minimum preparation beyond their RN license? Experience is valuable, but there needs to be a way to assess an individual's experience to ensure they have an ability to synthesize and organize that experience into coherent educational content for their students. Basically, an experienced RN still has to be able to teach.
  6. by   sailornurse
    [QUOTE=romie] The worst of it is that most faculty positions pay a lot less than positions in clinical practice. A nurse with a masters degree and NP credentials could easily earn $75-$95K whereas the same masters prepared nurse working as a faculty member would have to take a $10-20K cut in pay.
    I'm a FNP/MSN. I am teaching in a BSN program. The numbers you quote are high for this area. New Grads who work full time make more then I do. But I do get the summer/winterbreak/spring break off. Still yes working fulltime as NP I would earn $20K more. I work part time as FNP to keep my ANCC certification. Then the push is for me to get my doctorate. HA HA- I should go into debt so that I can ??? get tenure? Because the new Doctor of Nursing Practice well, I already have prescriptive/independent practice here in New Mexico- so why bother, Oh so I can earn $15K more per year???
  7. by   traumaRUs
    Yikes Sailor Nurse.

    I got a call out of the blue the other day on my cell phone from a local nursing school asking if I would consider teaching clinicals. Their next question was would I consider getting a PhD? I literally laughed at that one. let me get this right: I take a big pay cut, have to go back to school and then incur more student debt???

    I ain't that smart, but I didn't think this was such a hot career move!
  8. by   sailornurse
    Quote from traumaRUs
    Yikes Sailor Nurse.

    I got a call out of the blue the other day on my cell phone from a local nursing school asking if I would consider teaching clinicals. Their next question was would I consider getting a PhD? I literally laughed at that one. let me get this right: I take a big pay cut, have to go back to school and then incur more student debt???

    I ain't that smart, but I didn't think this was such a hot career move!
    Hey Trauma- yep it's sad that so many wonderfully qualified nurses such as you can not afford to come back & teach. It's the profession's loss. I teach because of a couple of reasons. With the nursing shortage- I feel a personal obligation to this area. I went LPN>ADN>BSN>MSN yet one of my NP professors was upset that I decided to teach & not practice as FNP fulltime. Until I reminded her that her future NP students, well she might not have as many if I did not help them become Rn's first. The BON requires a MSN to teach. Now come on, we all know there are terrific teachers of all types of degrees out there. When I take my students to clinicals, well they are being taught by real nurses, without anyne asking if they are ADN/BSN etc.
    I do not know what the solution will be but yes more money is a start. I have had 3 FNP's teach for one semester then they went back to private practice. Teaching is hard work. But very, very rewarding.
  9. by   traumaRUs
    I too did the LPN-ADN-BSN-MSN-post-MSN certificate! (You'd think I could have gotten it right the first time - lol). However, I also incurred lots of debt for my BSN/MSN, post-MSN and oh did I say that I had to pay over $8k back to my employer when I left because they didn't have any APN positions?
  10. by   anne74
    Many of my PhD, masters nurses were very poor teachers. They could barely construct a power point presentation, run a lecture, or write an exam. When these instructors are getting their PhD's, do they have any classes on teaching or education? It seems they just learn higher theories on nursing, and then they struggle with how to teach it. I paid an enormous amount of money to bascially teach the material to myself. And then when I started my first nursing job, I was grossly underprepared clinically. (And I have a BSN from a Big Ten university.)

    My point is - in reality, having a PhD or masters doesn't constitute a good teacher. Why not let BSN's, ADN's and especially the awesome diploma nurses teach - at least the clinical portions. The best instructor I ever had was "only" a BSN (but the univ let her teach because she was working on her masters). She was a great teacher because she just had the right personality and communication skills - and years of knowledgeable experience.

    And with any industry market, if you want to fill more postions you have to pay more. I've heard this doesn't happen because universities would then have to increase the salaries of their other professors. Can't hospitals, health insurance companies, the government, pharmaceutical companies kick in more to nursing instructor salaries, and not make the universities responsible for coming up with this extra money? (But, good luck getting them to do it.) At least with hospitals it would behoove them to contribute - right now they're losing a ton of money paying out sign-on bonuses to attract nurses, and paying overtime to fill holes in the schedule (and thus overworking and burning out our existing workforce, making nurses leave the profession sooner.) Then let the master's, PhD instructor teach the classroom lectures (but of course pay them a competitive salary and require they sharpen their teaching skills - not so much their nursing theory skills.)

    It's not that people don't want to be nurses. The lack of instructors absolutely is the core of this problem, and the nursing shortage is only getting worse. This is not new news, and there are mutliple solutions to fix this - it's just schools are so stuck in their ways and inflexible, they can't move fast enough to address it - and thus the problem continues.
    Last edit by anne74 on Oct 14, '06
  11. by   ERNP
    I, too, looked at teaching at the local university where I live. There are many community colleges within an easy commute. Someone tried to recruit me to teach while I was working not that long ago. But the reality of it is I work because I need to work.

    To teach at the local university would mean half the salary I currently enjoy. That is just more than I can give up, even if it means ushering in the next generation of nurses.

    Now that my kids are grown up, they are going to college and I have to pay that. In addition, my husband does a lot of construction projects at the local university. They are spending tons on purely decorative items for the campus. While a pretty campus is nice, if they really wanted to hire instructors the money is already available on the college campus.
  12. by   angiebcs
    I Work In A Rehab Where We Have Alot Foriegn Nurses That Are Rn's. My Biggest Problem Is ' Is That Play Dumb When They Make A Mistake They Always Say I Did Not Know. Now If If I Made The Mistake Of Giving 5mg Of Haldodl Instead Of 0.5mg I Would Loose My License. Are We As A Society That Hung Up On Initials That We Do Not Care Where They Come From. Most Lnp's Are Very Smart Just Because We Spend 32 Hours A Week In The Field . Get Rid Of The Tech's And Put Us Back In The Hospitals Where We Trained To Be In The Fist Place. Lpn Does Not Stan For Little Play Nurse.
  13. by   CseMgr1
    Quote from sanctuary
    Seems like there are some alternative answers to the teaching shortage. A nurse with 15 years experience in a speciality, or ten and a certification should be allowed to teach. They have hundreds of hours of real life knowledge that is a better preparation than 4,6,or 8 semesters sitting in a classroom. I have learned more from experience than any book out there. The best prepared nurses I have ever known were the diploma nurses, who spent a great part of their education on the floor, actually doing the job. After all, the great Florence herself did not have a PhD in Nursing, but she soon saw that cleanliness improved outcomes. Experience is more valuable than a string of letters after one's name.
    sanctuary, rn, ba, ma.
    Thank you! I am one of those diploma nurses. But, according to the Powers That May Be, my 36 years experience in just about every specialty area doesn't amount to a hill of beans without that sheepskin (no offense to those of you who are degreed, OK?). Just last summer I was being considered for a faculty position for a LPN program at a local technical school. I made it as far as the interview when I was asked: "When are you planning to get your degree?" So much for that idea.