Nurse Struck Off - page 3
Story in the news today I remember this when the documentary was shown first.... Read More
Apr 17, '09Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 3,899; Likes: 6,767Quote from Anxious PatientI agree that patient safety is more important than confidentiality. However, both are important and I don't think this was an either/or situation. Both should be preserved. Haywood didn't use the whistleblower protocols in place. Likewise, the BBC didn't have to use her to make their film. They were able to get one of their employees in with the cleaning services.Legal issues aside, which is really more important in the long run? To honor a patient's privacy, or expose a wrongdoing to a helpless patient (and possibly prevent many future cases of abuse). As a patient, I think the latter is more important. Unfortunately in cases like this the perpetrators seem to hold all the legal cards that can stifle any just resolution.
Apr 17, '09Occupation: Freelancing Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele ; Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 5,292; Likes: 7,635They could have made the faces fuzzy like you see on many shows. That way they could have better maintained privacy.
Apr 18, '09Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 38,000; Likes: 37,183I also agree that the BBC shares in the wrongdoing by making no effort to provide for anonymity of the subjects. I expected higher standards.
Apr 18, '09Occupation: RN Specialty: still to decide ; From: UK ; Joined: Feb '07; Posts: 69; Likes: 53When you have a patient in pain you set about relieving that for them...to know that they were in pain for 30 mins and to be filming this, is neglect, especially if his need was as bad as she painted it.
There is always someone you can find to help in situations like this....possibly staff from another ward if needed. No one would refuse to assist.
Maybe one of the reasons patients faced so many delays in personal care etc., was partly due to her priorities being in the wrong place.
Apr 18, '09Joined: Sep '06; Posts: 8,684; Likes: 4,002Quote from Anxious PatientI do understand what you are saying, as far as holding all the legal cards in the UK the Nursing and Midwifery council is independent of any NHS trust so their decision to remove her from the register would have been based on the evidence that was presented to them.Legal issues aside, which is really more important in the long run? To honor a patient's privacy, or expose a wrongdoing to a helpless patient (and possibly prevent many future cases of abuse). As a patient, I think the latter is more important. Unfortunately in cases like this the perpetrators seem to hold all the legal cards that can stifle any just resolution.
I think the issue I would have with this is that having just been a patient myself, I would be horrified to discover that I had been filmed without permission and left in pain when there was a nurse who had the means to alleviate that pain doing the filming. Reading some of the news stories in more detail the BBC have said that consent was gained prior to airing the program, however it should have been sought before filming. Additionally it would be my concern that the other hours and hours of footage prior to editing contained images or a personal nature, even though this wasn't aired to the general public the editors, producers and program makers would have viewed it in order to decide what was good viewing, these people did not have permission of the patients to view these images and this again - in my view is unacceptable.
It's not about hiding poor practice and conditions, it's about making sure the processes already in place are used to change it, and taking it as high as you can to make these changes.
Apr 18, '09Occupation: housewife and mother From: US ; Joined: Mar '07; Posts: 1,101; Likes: 1,979Quote from sharrieThanks for bringing out this point. (and also thanks to others for previous explanations). To use a patient as a prop and deny her care during the filming for dramatic effect is unconscionable and a violation beyond any privacy issues. My point was that I feel in some cases medical facilities co-opt these privacy rules not to protect the patient but to protect their staff (and the facility's reputation) from being exposed publically for any patient wrongdoing. It's too bad that this nurse's unethical method of exposing the important problem of nursing home abuse has become the news event, blindsiding the real issue of patient neglect.I think the issue I would have with this is that having just been a patient myself, I would be horrified to discover that I had been filmed without permission and left in pain when there was a nurse who had the means to alleviate that pain doing the filming. Reading some of the news stories in more detail the BBC have said that consent was gained prior to airing the program, however it should have been sought before filming. Additionally it would be my concern that the other hours and hours of footage prior to editing contained images or a personal nature, even though this wasn't aired to the general public the editors, producers and program makers would have viewed it in order to decide what was good viewing, these people did not have permission of the patients to view these images and this again - in my view is unacceptable.Last edit by Anxious Patient on Apr 18, '09
Apr 19, '09Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 452; Likes: 628I have worked in some bad places where there were always people more concerned with their job, their career, their this and their that to risk making a report against their employer. And consider this, if you worked in a really bad place for X amount of time and had never reported it, then aren't you just as guilty. If you are a person who speaks up and has, then you know exactly what will happen and what changes. In my experience, I am labelled a troublemaker and what changes is my job. The system remains unchanged.
Leaving a pt in pain and violating their privacy is wrong, but if it resulted in serious long-term improvements, then maybe this woman feels it was all worth it. Maybe it was...
Apr 20, '09Occupation: RN From: CA ; Joined: Apr '09; Posts: 5; Likes: 2It's just unfortunate for medical professionals to know some abused patient and they can not even report it due to what we called "patient confidentiality". I guess what we have to remember in everything we do is that " what's come around, comes around." I guess we just have to wait for that medical professionals who abuse patients to experience it themselves and let's see what they can feel....I don't agree with Margaret Haywood but I don't agree with patient abuse either!Last edit by XB9S on Apr 20, '09 : Reason: TOS
Apr 20, '09Joined: Sep '06; Posts: 8,684; Likes: 4,002Quote from medicalconnectIt's just unfortunate for medical professionals to know some abused patient and they can not even report it due to what we called "patient confidentiality". I guess what we have to remember in everything we do is that " what's come around, comes around." I guess we just have to wait for that medical professionals who abuse patients to experience it themselves and let's see what they can feel....I don't agree with Margaret Haywood but I don't agree with patient abuse either!
Going public on national television is not reporting patient abuse, it's further abusing patients who are already vulnerable.
She could report it to her superiors, to the trust board, to her member of parliament and to the nursing and midwifery council. She chose to breech patient confidentiality on national television instead.
Apr 20, '09Joined: Sep '06; Posts: 8,684; Likes: 4,002here is a link to the Nursing and Midwifery councils hearing transcript
I have copied the bit of the hearing document that explains why the decision was made to remove this nurse from the register rather than impose sanctions on her practice
Next the panel has considered whether or not to impose a suspension order. A suspension order is appropriate if the misconduct is not fundamentally incompatible with being a nurse. The panel is of the view that the misconduct found is fundamentally incompatible with being a nurse. The registrant embarked upon filming many vulnerable, elderly patients in the last stages of their lives knowing that it was unlikely that they would be able to give any meaningful consent to that process, in circumstances where their dignity was most compromised. The registrant could have attempted to address shortcomings by other means. But this was never a course of action which she fully considered. She was intent of capturing the realities of life on the ward by means of filming.
In the view of the panel this was a major breach of the code of conduct. A patient should be able to trust a nurse with his/her physical condition and psychological wellbeing without that confidential information being disclosed to others. Only in the most exceptional circumstances should the cardinal principle of patient confidentiality be breached. Those circumstances did not pertain here. Although the conditions on the ward were dreadful, it was not necessary to breach confidentiality to seek to improve them by the method chosen. In any event, this method was unlikely to benefit the patients that were on the Ward at the time of filming and under her care.
The panel has therefore decided to strike the registrant off the register.
Apr 20, '09Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 452; Likes: 628Perhaps my perspective is different because I live in a small and nepotistic country. I am from the US and have witnessed things that just freaked me out. The biggest concern is that many western societies believe that warehousing their aged is in itself humane. It is no secret what some of these places are like and it is no secret that there is only so much a government can do. I have certainly worked in institutions that encouraged dishonesty to minimize staff and to save money (not very long). I have also been unjustly fired and had people threaten to "ruin me."
I was young and foolish then and believed I had a future in nursing. I have since learned that people like me don't get very far in nursing. I have a very low tolerance for sacrificing a few for the greater good or to protect an incompetent. I think the GFC has proven that the status quo and chasing the dollar above all else will lead to nothing good. Healthcare organizations are no different: they can be just as corrupt and dysfunctional as any profit driven business.
I am very familiar with the stiuation in the UK and I have met hundreds of nurses who have left and vowed never to return. I have heard of nurses being responsible for the care of 20 patients in a ward more than a few times. I also know that jobs are quite tight and the situation a bit desperate. Recipe for abuse in my eyes.Last edit by ANnot4me on Apr 20, '09 : Reason: spelling
Apr 21, '09Occupation: psychatric/general nurse Specialty: ELDERLY CARE ; Joined: Feb '06; Posts: 16; Likes: 12I think that the confidentiality issue was just the lucky part for the Nmc .However there is very little else the nurse could have done in filming in the hospital setting which would not breach confidentiality.She knew the risk of losing her registration .I admire her. She has shown up appalling conditions and SHE HAD complained before several times and nothing was done.I think I know whose conscience will be rested most when she reveiws her life in later years. Hers will be at rest!
Its time someone exposed the abuse that goes on in some hospital /care institutions it is well over due and I think this woman should have her registration back.It is right to make the world aware of abuse when it is going on under our noses everyday.This is what Ms Haywood did and deep down we know she is right. Confidentiality must never be used to allow abuse to continue and this is what she was grappling with.How many years would it take to pursue a case through the proper channels?Her complaints were ignored.
My father who has alzheimers was in an NHS ward recently practically moribund with necrotizing cholangitis.He improved with conservative treatment. Getting any information from anyone was very difficult and I had to make a complaint to get an interveiw with the consultant re his prognosis and treatment having asked many times to see him but was constantly put off by staff.It was as if we his family did not matter or did not exist and confidentiality kept popping up.He was in bed for three weeks. Despite being able to stand he didnt seem inclined to get out of bed so the physios didnt try to help him . End of life care was planned as the Drs said the infection would return without constant abs. We insisted my father went back to his care home QUICKLY as we knew they could give better care. He was home an hour and he got out of bed and walked down the corridor!He remains well at present.No abs in sight and i am so glad we got him home quickly. We could have helped to mobilse him there, we could have fed him,we do it anyway at the home but they would not let us.It dosnt make sense.
I have nursed in the UK for thirty years and basic care is getting worse and is not understood by nurses who are supposed to be intelligent .We need more Ms Haywoods more common sense, less rules and folk who will blow the whistle when no one is taking notice!
Apr 21, '09Joined: Jun '08; Posts: 132; Likes: 87Reading this
what I understand is:
Haywood's charge of patient neglect was dropped .
Haywood was cleared of not following the approved whistleblowing policy.
Haywood was struck off because she breached patient confidentiality. Minor point there: all those patients involved or their families were contacted prior to broadcasting and accord was sought and obtained, otherwise the BBC would have been in deep trouble, right? The NMC struck her off for taking the tapes to the BBC BEFORE she sought consent?
There was a conflict of interests here and the registrant followed her role as a person engaged by the Panorama programme rather than her duties as nurse.
Do they think she did that for fun? A nurse for 20 years with no complaints to her name in all that time?
I'm just trying to understand here.