Nurse alleges fired for suggesting pt go to church - page 6

Nurse 'sacked over church advice'... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    I'm from California - I'm not sure he did anything wrong.

    This was training - not a real patient. Please stop saying "patient" - Karen did a good job of getting more info for us.

    There is evidence that having faith of some kind does help with mental issues - I'm not sure exactly how saying this in a training exercise is such a bad thing.

    steph
    Last edit by Spidey's mom on May 30, '09
  2. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from nrskarenrn
    after reading this article from uk telegraph newspaper ( appears to be original source other news reports quote article) nurse loses job after urging patients to find god during a training course

    b. mr rao is identified as care giver, a not a licensed nurse. uk caregiver is equivalent to us personal care (pca) or certified nursing assistant (cna)
    according to your link above, mr. rao is referred to as a caregive once, but also as a nurse 2x...???

    Quote from spidey's mom

    this was training - not a real patient. please stop saying "patient" - karen did a good job of getting more info for us.

    there is evidence that having faith of some kind does help with mental issues - i'm not sure exactly how saying this in a training exercise is such a bad thing.

    steph
    this is not his first incident.

    "since joining us in 2005 he had continuously shown a disregard for the nmc code of conduct which he had breached on more than one occasion." (from above link)

    he had also been initially suspended in regards to his professional conduct.

    it sounds like this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

    honestly, why retain an employee with whom there is a perpetual struggle?

    leslie
  3. by   Hushdawg
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I'm from California - I'm not sure he did anything wrong.

    This was training - not a real patient. Please stop saying "patient" - Karen did a good job of getting more info for us.

    There is evidence that having faith of some kind does help with mental issues - I'm not sure exactly how saying this in a training exercise is such a bad thing.
    steph
    The issue here is that he recommended the "patient" in the training exercise go to church; he did not provide an option for spiritual counseling. Yes, faith is VERY helpful in dealing with mental issues but making assumptions about faith and telling people to "go to church" is not the way to do it. The proper response would have been to offer the patient to contact a spiritual leader to help him/her and let the religious leader, not the nurse, give the spiritual guidance.

    What good is a training exercise if you don't treat it like the real thing?
    Is it okay to pretend to inject the wrong medication during a training exercise? Of course not... how was his action any different? One action can cause harm to the body, the other can cause harm to the psyche.
  4. by   futuremombabynurse
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    I have an undocumented theory that I'd like to check out among those posting here. It was my supposition that those reading this thread who were originally from the south, southeast and midwest parts of the USA, would think the "nurse" was victimized for religious beliefs and giving appropriate advice. Those from the northeast, northwest, and west side of the country might pass it off as a religious "nut" who didn't respect boundaries......

    Am I right? :spin:
    Depends, do you put Texas as South or West?

    Although I will admit, he did have a right to see the documentation beforehand. Doesn't make what he did any less wrong, though.
  5. by   LaneyB
    I have an undocumented theory that I'd like to check out among those posting here. It was my supposition that those reading this thread who were originally from the south, southeast and midwest parts of the USA, would think the "nurse" was victimized for religious beliefs and giving appropriate advice. Those from the northeast, northwest, and west side of the country might pass it off as a religious "nut" who didn't respect boundaries......

    I'm from the midwest, and I fall into the lack of respect for boundaries thinking (I'm also nonreligious, though).
  6. by   madwife2002
    Quote from Hushdawg
    The issue here is that he recommended the "patient" in the training exercise go to church; he did not provide an option for spiritual counseling. Yes, faith is VERY helpful in dealing with mental issues but making assumptions about faith and telling people to "go to church" is not the way to do it. The proper response would have been to offer the patient to contact a spiritual leader to help him/her and let the religious leader, not the nurse, give the spiritual guidance.

    What good is a training exercise if you don't treat it like the real thing?
    Is it okay to pretend to inject the wrong medication during a training exercise? Of course not... how was his action any different? One action can cause harm to the body, the other can cause harm to the psyche.
    I would like to think that if I was in a training exercise and made an error the tutor would guide me in the right direction with rationale, not report me to the boss LOL. You know news papers they do scream sensationalism. After I posted this article I did seach the net looking for more information and at that time could find nothing, so thank you to Karen for finding further information on this subject.

    When I am interacting with a patient who has been given a poor diagnoses is emotionally upset I normally ask if there is anybody they would like me to call, if I know their religion and they are religious, I would ask if they would like somebody to visit from their congregation who does hospital visits. If not we have volunteers who will come and listen.

    I trained and worked in a multicultural city back in the UK and we had to study all aspects of a potential pts religious, cultural and spirtual beliefs. We had protocols in place on each ward to enable us to do quick referals should a pt become very unwell or die, because it is so easy to offend their beliefs.
  7. by   elkpark
    Quote from madwife2002
    I would like to think that if I was in a training exercise and made an error the tutor would guide me in the right direction with rationale, not report me to the boss LOL. You know news papers they do scream sensationalism. After I posted this article I did seach the net looking for more information and at that time could find nothing, so thank you to Karen for finding further information on this subject.

    When I am interacting with a patient who has been given a poor diagnoses is emotionally upset I normally ask if there is anybody they would like me to call, if I know their religion and they are religious, I would ask if they would like somebody to visit from their congregation who does hospital visits. If not we have volunteers who will come and listen.

    I trained and worked in a multicultural city back in the UK and we had to study all aspects of a potential pts religious, cultural and spirtual beliefs. We had protocols in place on each ward to enable us to do quick referals should a pt become very unwell or die, because it is so easy to offend their beliefs.
    Again, the article made the point more than once that this was not an isolated incident, which probably would have simply been addressed and then forgotten, but a "last straw" in an ongoing series of incidents.
  8. by   madwife2002
    Quote from elkpark
    Again, the article made the point more than once that this was not an isolated incident, which probably would have simply been addressed and then forgotten, but a "last straw" in an ongoing series of incidents.

    I know, but thank you for continuing to point it out, I am actually just commenting on the training class
  9. by   elkpark
    Quote from madwife2002
    I know, but thank you for continuing to point it out, I am actually just commenting on the training class
    In ordinary circumstances, I would agree with you about the training class thing. I don't know how these things work in the NHS, but, in the US, once one is identified as a "problem" employee, management and supervisors start looking for and noting any little slip or infraction they can find, in order to justify eventually firing you (if it comes to that). Typically, though, you are also counseled and offered opportunities to improve your practice before it comes to that (firing). Sounds like this guy has worn out his welcome with his employer.
  10. by   madwife2002
    I can imagine that they were at the end of their tether with this employee, but you can imagine he is going to get every ounce of sympthy and money if he can out of the situation.

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