Nurse alleges fired for suggesting pt go to church - page 3

Nurse 'sacked over church advice'... Read More

  1. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from madnurse2b
    Ooh and from my past job - how are social/religious questions so much more intrusive than "How many sexual partners have you had...Do you use condoms....have you had previous STD's and what kind....."???
    We used to have to ask this. I never asked, feeling it was way too nosy. What possible difference could it make to someone's care how many sexual partners he or she had had. Anyway, they might have lost count
  2. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from madwife2002
    My comment on the age was simple to suggest the article may be flawed because unfortunately in the UK you were forced to retire at 65yrs old and I had never heard of anybody practicing at 71yrs old. I have NO opinion on age and nursing what so ever
    So what's happening now?

    I guess old nurses could run for political office in the UK, after reaching 65 years of age. It might do the National Health Trust some good, in regard to approval practises for older patients....... I've seen parliament in the movies, where everyone looks old, with curly white haired wigs and stiff gaits.

    I don't know if Catholic hospitals still have nuns working as nurses into their 80s...... Why I remember one........

    Sorry, it's late and I'm not tired yet...... maybe a little ditsy.... but that's only after sundown......
  3. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from Vito Andolini
    Too bad that, at 71, he wasn't already retired!
    "A pox on you, sir!" It takes a 70 year old, to know the capabilities one can have at 71....... Just look at the ages of some Presidents while in office, and their accomplishments - better still, look at actors of that age....
  4. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from Vito Andolini
    We used to have to ask this. I never asked, feeling it was way too nosy. What possible difference could it make to someone's care how many sexual partners he or she had had. Anyway, they might have lost count
    Now we're talking! It does indicate some proclivity for STDs, when someone had multiple sex partners. (They also may go to church often, for confession).

    The multiplicity is enough, not a total number, unless they offer one. If that number is over a few hundred, their occupation might be good to know, as there's a high incidence of substance abuse in the prostitute population.

    I like to ask if the patient thinks that a sex partner could have had an infection, and if so, whether they would like to be tested. When they run out of fingers and toes, they're in trouble.......
    Last edit by lamazeteacher on May 25, '09 : Reason: punctuation for clarity, addition for fun
  5. by   madwife2002
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    So what's happening now?

    I guess old nurses could run for political office in the UK, after reaching 65 years of age. It might do the National Health Trust some good, in regard to approval practises for older patients....... I've seen parliament in the movies, where everyone looks old, with curly white haired wigs and stiff gaits.

    I don't know if Catholic hospitals still have nuns working as nurses into their 80s...... Why I remember one........

    Sorry, it's late and I'm not tired yet...... maybe a little ditsy.... but that's only after sundown......

    LOL I've seen those movies too-I think and only think in Parliament they may be a touch younger these days LOL
  6. by   rph3664
    Quote from ghillbert
    I'm taking physical exam at school now, and was surprised that we are supposed to ask patients when taking a health history about social supports, including religious practices. I can't see how that's relevant to my health, and I find it intrusive.
    Not necessarily. Are you aware that Jehovah's Witnesses will not allow blood transfusions because of their interpretation of the Bible? Or that porcine heart valves are not to be implanted in a Muslim or Jew? Having their religious information on file makes things much easier if they wish to have a spiritual adviser contacted.
  7. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from rph3664
    Not necessarily. Are you aware that Jehovah's Witnesses will not allow blood transfusions because of their interpretation of the Bible? Or that porcine heart valves are not to be implanted in a Muslim or Jew? Having their religious information on file makes things much easier if they wish to have a spiritual adviser contacted.
    Having a patient's religion on the front sheet is usually for statistical reasons, but it can mislead people.

    Porcine heart valves are fine for Reform Jews. I'm one, and love pork!
  8. by   keithjones
    "He said he told her she should go to church to alleviate stress."

    "A coffee break with a friend at work, a quick chat with a neighbor, a phone call to your sister, even a visit to church are all ways to reduce stress while fostering lasting relationships with the people close to you." - source Mayoclinic

    If he had suggested the person take a coffee break I doubt he would have been fired! You have to understand too that Great Britain is a post christian society and public expression of faith is frowned on much more than in the US. I hate that there are double standards for Christians though, if he were Muslim and said Faith in Allah will heal you the hospital would have commended him for his extra mile efforts to treat the whole patient; body mind and spirit.

    Fortunately the two major hospitals here are Baptist and Catholic so faith is not frowned on. There was even a prayer over the hospital PA while my wife was having her sinus surgery last week.
  9. by   Hushdawg
    From the article:
    ""Mr Rao was given every opportunity to assure us that this would not happen again, but he was unable to do so and showed little regard for the standards of care and professionalism that is expected of him as a nurse." She added that Mr Rao was "welcome" to follow the trust's formal appeals process."


    So even though he's breached conduct and has been chastized many times before he is still given a chance to come back if he follows the rules.


    Sounds fair to me!


    As a non-Christian it really bothers me when people shake the Bible at me as a magical cure-all for problems in life and health. If it were really true then why do good Christian people like Billy Graham have health problems?


    Stuff happens.
    Life happens.
    Religion is never a magical cure-all and it is the task of professionals to realize that each person addresses life through the religious filter and just because it is different from yours doesn't make it any less valid.


    I definitely rely on my faith and my religion to guide me through life's difficulties but I do not expect God to rub a crystal ball and make it all go away. That isn't what religion is for.


    Wow.. I really got off on a tangent... nevermind.... I'll go sit in the corner now.
  10. by   Hushdawg
    Quote from rph3664
    Not necessarily. Are you aware that Jehovah's Witnesses will not allow blood transfusions because of their interpretation of the Bible? Or that porcine heart valves are not to be implanted in a Muslim or Jew? Having their religious information on file makes things much easier if they wish to have a spiritual adviser contacted.
    While there is a difference of opinion among Jurists a majority do agree that pig parts are not to be implanted in humans. Not because they are pigs though since the prohibition is against EATING pigs but because it is combining the animal and human which crosses an ethical line for us.

    Personally I would reject any animal part implantation on the basis of my religion, even if it meant my life.

    Additionally, if a physician is attempting a diagnosis of a Muslim who she or he can see is practicing (by presence of proper clothing or beard) then the physician can pretty well eliminate problems caused by pork or alcohol.
  11. by   elkpark
    Quote from keithjones
    "... I hate that there are double standards for Christians though, if he were Muslim and said Faith in Allah will heal you the hospital would have commended him for his extra mile efforts to treat the whole patient; body mind and spirit.
    Fortunately the two major hospitals here are Baptist and Catholic so faith is not frowned on. There was even a prayer over the hospital PA while my wife was having her sinus surgery last week.
    Not anywhere that I've ever practiced! Over the almost 25 years of my practice, in a few different states, in church-owned and public hospitals, I've not encountered any "double standard" or predjudice against Christianity -- only against Christians (or members of any other religion) attempting to proselytize or push their personal beliefs on others. What I have encountered is many Christians who seem to feel that any kind of limitation on their "freedom" to preach to others, whether they want to hear it or not, is a form of religious persecution.
  12. by   madnurse2b
    Quote from ghillbert
    Obviously people having beliefs such as those precluding transfusions is relevant to health. That is not what I am talking about. I clearly stated that during a history, as part of the social support section, we are instructed to ask "do you attend church?". It's none of my health provider's business. Asking if they have social support is one thing, which clearly can impact health. I'm not sure that whether I attend church does.


    Well, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, but that clearly impacts your health which would make it sensible for a healthcare provider to ask.
    Since you can check Cinahl or any other academic search for peer reviewed articles and come up with MANY articles on the impact of religion and regular church attendance on health...I think perhaps you are being disingenous. You were referring to finding it intrusive - these social supports are something that evidenced based nursing practice have found to be conducive to health maintenance. Perhaps also you should look up Parish Nursing.
    I use the example because people find these things intrusive - having to ask an elderly woman about her sexual activity IS intrusive. And if you find it intrusive to ask the question about church then you won't find out that your patient WAS a churchgoer until they became ill. You won't find out that one of the interventions you can provide for the patient is arranging for the religious care/support that makes their recovery successful.
    I'm not saying that you "slow to learn or understand; lacking intellectual acuity", with which your statement you are implying of myself. I am not saying that the question is not intrusive. I am simply saying that if you want to be a nurse - GET OVER IT! It's all relevant to your patient's care.
  13. by   madnurse2b
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    If you asked me if I go to church, I might respond, "No, but I do go to my Jewish Temple". It would seem odd to me, that you asked me such a thing!

    The purpose of knowing anyone's religious affiliation, is to meet their need for religious intervention while in hospital. Chaplains are usually there, and it's good to let patients know that one could visit them, if they wish. It's all about them. Leave your need to influence others with your religious beliefs, at your church! Some other religions are very touchy about Christians' interference with their flock's beliefs.
    Note that I started with religious...I am not a Christian, you can tell me you are an atheist, a Buddhist or a Zoroastran, I don't care about that, I care about what support can I help you get.

    Had you responded with no, I would leave it. If you responded with I'm Jewish, I would ask if you had a regular Rabbi and attempt to find out whether your community was involved in what is going on with you. And the question doesn't come out of nowhere - it's in the same section asking about social support networks - i.e. who do you live with, are you active in your community. The previous poster was speaking about a physical assessment. I will say in terms of school we are asked to do a much more comprehensive history than I have ever done in the Primary Care setting. However, I can say that in clinical rotations that the new emphasis on some of the cultural and spiritual guidelines has actually allowed me to provide some good interventions for my patients. By asking the questions, we learn more about the patient and open dialogue. The question is entirely contextual within the nurse/patient relationship.

    Perhaps, other than the fact that the guy in the story had had multiple other problems, he was onto something. Since I've now been accused of being obtuse, and odd in asking questions that they have now integrated into nursing education because of the benefit to the patient. Maybe we shouldn't try to help patients with psychosocial issues because religion is too hot button, and we might be accused of being biased.

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