Napa Valley nursing students draw crowd as they protest use of ATI exam - page 9
nvc nursing students draw crowd as they protest mandatory exam napa valley register - napa,ca,usa about 100 napa valley college nursing students filled the college board room thursday night in... Read More
Dec 7, '06Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53Lizz, I agree, thats a bit of a quandry. The school isn't going to be hurting financially as far as the idea that students will stop coming because there are so few 'open slots' for so many students, that they will grasp at whatever school will accept 'em. Hell, I put in applications at three different schools at the same time, when I was trying to get in. The schools around HERE didn't keep a 'waiting list' or an 'alternates list'. They decided how got accepted based on GPA and luck (I guess if too many had similar grades, you just got there first? ) regardless, I felt lucky to have gotten in. I was lucky also in that the year I applied, they opened up their first-evern RN Night Program, which suited me since I was working full-time anyway. So my class was the first Night Program offered here -which is now a regular offering.
I'm just glad that its behind me, and I feel sympathy for those who are trying to get in. There are so many who want in, and so few positions. And it seems the only real 'standard' is the one pushed by the boards test, not the school itself. Even in your own state -I've talked to many who had an entirely different school experience than I did.
Dec 7, '06Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 5We were told in our 2nd semester that we were going to start doing ATIs. We were also told up and down that in no way would they affect our grades. When we started our last (3rd) sem. in Aug. we were told that we'd take a comprehensive ATI that would count as 60% of our final grade. Needless to say we were all worried to death. We took that test yesterday and everyone passed. Our instructors are lucky, because I'd say some of the students would have (rightfully) raised cane if they hadn't passed.
Dec 7, '06Occupation: mom, student Joined: Feb '06; Posts: 4At WMU we take the ATI at the end of every semester and we must pass with a 60% to continue in the program. It is my understanding that the university uses the results to better prepare us to sit for the NCLEX. I completed the ATI for this semester this morning after much anxiety. I am glad it is over for now anyway!
Dec 7, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58
After careful review of all of the articles pertaining to this matter.
The only one that told the whole truth and nothing but the truth is.......................................
The 30 year veteran Registered Nurse who wrote an article to the Napa Valley news.
She knows what she knows. No arguiing with her part.
Another research I've done is .... based on my research, there are more registered nurses who support this matter than not. The lay people do not understand it, therefore, well, what can I say. If you've never been there, how can they understand?
Ignorance is okay, but to stay ignorant is not.
Dec 7, '06Occupation: ER Manager Joined: Dec '06; Posts: 43; Likes: 47I hate to add this, but I'm scared of Hesi. I'm starting my last semester of Nursing School and 900 on the Hesi exit exam is required to graduate. We also had to pass a custom Hesi to go from 2nd level to 3rd level. The students are only give 2 chances to pass with at least a 900 even though Hesi only recommends 850. It does not count towards any grade, but if you fail you have to repeat the semester a year later. Does this sound fair? Diagnostic test should not keep a person from receiving their degree.
Dec 7, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58Jaloc
How can you not be scared of any test, that you yourself know that is suppose to be a standarized practice exam and your teachers are using it for punitive reasons. What's not to be afraid of that?
Dr. Morrsion creator of the HESI exam said herself it is to help the students and faculty (yes, both) to identify their areas of weakness prior to taking the State Board Licensing Exam. Look-up her comment and print it... Nursing News, Nursing Jobs & Travel Nursing Resources at NurseZone.com
Everyone who looked up www.atitesting.com and Evolve and have read it thorughly, no where did it say that it can be used otherwise.
You guys might want to print the advertising of ati and hesi, just in case they decide to change anything. Companies are sneaky that way.
It is probably better to notify the Higher of Education Learning who accrediates most of these colleges . Also you State Board of Nursing.
If the schools are hiding the purpose of these exams, more than likely they are hiding more. I would like to see what other skeletons are in their closets. These colleges were allowed to get away with alot of things in the past, they really should be monitored closely.
For all of those nurses who completed the nursing program and were not given a degree should speak up. What happened was soooo unprofessional and selfish of the school.
The collegess wanted advertising now they got it.
In the meantime, keep studying, work on your anxiety and pray.
Dec 7, '06Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Here's the latest news ...
Napa Valley Register Online | LocalNews
Under the agreement proposed by their lawyer which, btw, hasn't been approved yet ... it looks like these two students will take an incomplete and have to retake the ATI in the spring.
This agreement, if finalized, would only apply to McManus and Amoren-Gonzalez. The agreement does not address the standing of any other NVC students dismissed from the nursing program for not scoring at the 50th percentile on the ATI.
Whoah ... if they only do this for these two students, that could be a big problem. I bet a lot of students who were failed will be banging on the door wanting the same deal.
Dec 7, '06Joined: Aug '06; Posts: 40; Likes: 56I probably fall into a very small minority, but I strongly support setting very high bars for our profession. I do not know what the evidence supports as to which are the most relevant proficiency measuring tools, but there should be at least a few to ensure our profession has high professional standards and that only the most suitable join it.
We should make our profession special and rare. We should set a high mark that encourages the truly dedicated and discourages those seeking a relatively easy path to a relatively great career. I don't want to be working next to someone who is a nurse because it seemed like a quick route to decent pay or because it was easier than going to medical school or getting a basic degree in college.
I am sure to tick off many of you, but I think nursing should be a degree-only profession. BSN should be the minimum standard. The NCLEX should be extremely rigorous and there should be a very intense internship required of every graduate before becoming an independently practicing nurse. I truly believe this is the first step necessary if we are to get the respect our profession deserves, not to mention the salary and working conditions we must have to be secure physically and emotionally. It also means professional security. Only those who are dedicated and hard-working and capable should have access to our license and all that it entitles.
Let us raise that bar and our profession as well as our reputation will follow.
Dec 7, '06Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 528; Likes: 23We were just talking about the most respected professions at one of our lectures last week....we were asked what the most respected profession is at the moment..and nurses were one of them...I think the instructor said nurses are on the top of the list of most respected people/professions........can't remember exact wording verbatim but noone in the class said anything when we were asked, and it's because no one thought it would be nurses...... anyway........ can't we all just get along????:spin: everyone is entitled to their opinion.....Last edit by KellieNurse06 on Dec 7, '06
Dec 7, '06Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 528; Likes: 23Quote from jeffrey_rnI think you probably feel this way because you already obtained your BSN.....so please....... as an example to give you....I know an LPN who could run circles around any level of education of a nurse be it RN, BSN, or MSN on any day......she blows doors on any nurse I know or have known for that matter......so it should be irrelevant that one should have a BSN as a minimum to be a nurse........I commend you for getting your BSN and congrats & good luck if you even further your education even higher.I probably fall into a very small minority, but I strongly support setting very high bars for our profession. I do not know
I am sure to tick off many of you, but I think nursing should be a degree-only profession. BSN should be the minimum standard. Let us raise that bar and our profession as well as our reputation will follow.
Some people choose not to further their educational level and are just as happy with a diploma in nursing or an associates in nursing...........there are far more important things to worry about in life Good luck with that BSN
Dec 7, '06Occupation: CST, CFA Joined: Dec '06; Posts: 454; Likes: 117what everyone seems to keep forgetting is that these students had "b" averages!!!!! the test scores indicated that they were not in the top 50% in the nation. that is what they were failed for.
no matter how high the standards are set, there will still be a top 50% and a lower 50%.
going by the standard of this school, 1/2 of all nurses in the nation should have been failed and not allowed to practice.
a high standard and what this school did are two different things.
Dec 7, '06Joined: Aug '06; Posts: 40; Likes: 56With all sincerity, I am not trying to offend or inflame. I do not mean to imply that a nurse without a BSN cannot or is not a capable, even excellent, nurse. I know many non-BSN nurses that blow many BSN nurses out of the water in every category one could imagine. That is not the point I am trying to make.
My point is this: a BSN is a standard (and a very reasonable standard. Many, if not most, professions require a bachelors degree at least). It places a hurdle that one must overcome. It, in essence, raises the bar. And yes, it may reduce the supply and increase the demand, but any armchair economist understands that this basic principle is what drives economic prosperity. It is also what makes a scarce resource a precious commodity. I want to see nurses heralded as the diamonds of the health care world!
I just believe that a higher bar is what is necessary in order for our profession to be held in greater esteem. I think minimum standards of excellence must be implemented. If we expect better pay, working conditions, and a voice that gets heard, we need to have qualifications that allow only those that are truly qualified.
Can a bachelors' level education be considered too much to expect for a nurse? It's not for accountants, teachers, counselors, and so many other professions. Nurses are expected to do so many things; things that often revolve around life and death. We are expected to be mathematically competent, use critical thinking, understand the complexities of human anatomy, physiology, pathology, psychology and cultural diversity, and etc., etc., etc. There are BA/BS level jobs out there that come no where near that level of expectation. Yet, one can be a nurse with a year of practical experience. It doesn't really make sense to me. I think it's backwards in fact.
If a person wants to be a doctor, he or she must complete a very long and difficult journey of education. They do not have a one or two year option to be a diploma doctor or a practical doctor. They can be a doctor's assistant or a nurse, but not a medical doctor. That is only fair for the doctor who completes the degreed program. He or she shouldn't have to compete with those who took a shorter and less expensive (in all ways) path.
It is not the same in nursing. But should it be different? I do not think so. I do not imply any disrespect. I just believe there should be certain minimum standards that are immutable. The qualifications should be set as high as are the expectations of our profession.
Dec 8, '06Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53I don't have much of an interest in a bachelors at the moment. Most seem to be in agreement that THAT is the route to take if you want to get into a managerial position. I have no interest in going that route. I don't drive a desk, nor do I ever intend to. As shortages (demand) go, our profession is already into the critical zone of shortages. When hospitals pay and go through the hassle to get foreign nurses to come over, I'd say that the shortage is in a critical stage. I don't pretend to be an armchair quarterback in economics, but to believe that our profession would be further served by making a major shortage even worse is silly. Too many facilities already operate with below-safe levels of staffing. My last facility rarely opened up one of its wings because they just could not field enough nurses to do the job -that hurts the facility (company) as well as the staff -which is continually overworked. Nothing gained in THAT department. Can't hire what isn't available. That facility had a fair percentage of staff that were agency-employed -and one reason I left 'em is because I didn't see it changing for the better (I could see 'em eventually closing if they couldn't swing things back, though. And having been a part of a company that had to close, it was an experience I had no interest in repeating. You know the axe is falling, and you hang onto a company that is in its death throes because you hope it will manage to get a life-raft thrown at it somehow... no thanks, not again. That little outfit couldn't compete with the larger facilities (mainly, the one I work for now). I just don't believe our profession is going to be served by continuing to engage in practices that make our shortage greater.
NO school will completely prepare you for the work itself. That is what orientation is for.
I have a lot of respect for my fellow nurses and friends who have achieved their bsn, but having watched 'em come out of school, into our department, I'm quite safe in saying that they were no more prepared to do what we do than I was when I came to the department with my 2 year degree.