Napa Valley nursing students draw crowd as they protest use of ATI exam - page 5
nvc nursing students draw crowd as they protest mandatory exam napa valley register - napa,ca,usa about 100 napa valley college nursing students filled the college board room thursday night in... Read More
Dec 5, '06Joined: Mar '99; Posts: 13,361; Likes: 1,376Perhaps there was a technical glitch causing right answers to be scored as wrong.
Dec 5, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58TO CARDIAC RN;
When going into the nursing program, we had in our student policy handbook and admission criteria, that we must pass a comprehensive examination it didn't say anything about an achievement score, and HESI OR ATI was never mentioned. It never mentioned how many times we can or cannot take it. After that, it stated that after achieving the comprehensive examination, the student must complete a 6500 NCLEX RN simulation examination at 90% ...prior to taking the NCLEX RN Examination.
It never mentioned that if we were unsuccessful with the exam that we would not get our degree or the opportunity to take the NCLEX RN.
All through out the program, passing was at 78% and above. For HESI, they require 85% and above.
The HESI AND ATI are predictability, diagnostic, exams.
We are not asking for pity, or anything irrational. Just what we deserve to be given the opportunity to take State Boards. Are they not the ones who determines if we are competent nurses?
Dec 5, '06Joined: Aug '05; Posts: 228; Likes: 17Quote from spacenursespacenurse, you have posted the most salient comment on this entire thread so far, imo, and i have read the later ones to date, also.if all schools used it like this 50% of those who attended nursing school could not graduate.
what are these administrators thinking? did they fail statistics (or even take the class)?
Dec 5, '06Specialty: 5 year(s) of experience in ICU, telemetry, LTAC ; Joined: Apr '04; Posts: 1,483; Likes: 1,003It seems to me the instructors as a whole for this school are having a mass attack of stupidity, and defending it with the arrogance reserved for nursing instructors. Nursing instructors, you see, tend to mostly stick together, unlike actual nurses, and so if one of your instructors is the devil incarnate and has this horrible idea, you'll see the whole faculty usually bond together and defend said horrible idea.
Sorry if I sound bitter. I like to call it a "realistic attitude."
Our school used the ATI program but the composite scores were the important thing, and it wasn't a graduation requirement, but a tool to help us predict the likelihood of passing the NCLEX. The national percentile thing was a curiosity, something to show if we were attending a good program, or that's how we interpreted it.
So the school that has people scoring closely to or under the 50th percentile nationally, is a crappy program and ought to be looking at how they teach. However, if the students who were under 50% nationally, had good composite scores, it still means the student stands a decent chance of passing the NCLEX. And that is all it's supposed to do. Ask ATI. That is all it was designed to do. That is what they sell, that is what you pay for.
Now. That's nice to know, that ATI only sells a diagnostic tool. So sweet. Why does the school have doodlysquat to do with ATI? Because of what colleges these days do: make money. That's it folks. "Oh we have 60 slots for nursing school, no wait list." Translation: a bunch of students in prereqs all the time = a bunch of tuition money for the college. "Oh there's a shortage of nursing instructors." Translation: the school is too cheap to spend money on good instructors, better keep the demonspawn we can't get rid of, and save money. "We need a good NCLEX pass rate so here, pass this numbercruncher standardized test so we can keep our program and you can graduate." Translation: Thank you for your money the last few years, now we want to make sure you will pass the NCLEX or we will just keep the money and deny you any benefit whatsoflippingever from your hard work. Or, in other words, BOHICA. (Bend over, here it comes again.)
In my opinion, (if you haven't heard enough of it) the BON of california should be taking a long hard look at the way this school runs its program.
Dec 5, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58INDY
You are absolutely correct. Teachers do stick together no matter if its right or wrong. Last year, we were told by an instructor that we better support the teachers' strike and if we do she would pass the class. Some did and some didn't. Some told - it was rough for those who didn't. Same instructor, couldn't answer most of our questions in lecture so she had another classmate answer it. I never knew if that student was right or wrong. Most of my second year was pretty self taught.
That same instructor did whatever she wanted to do with the students. She deflated students grades, 27/31 finally filed a grievance against her. Through internal investigation, it was founded her scoring did not match with the students' own grade scores.
From then on it became evident that the teaching methodology became personal.
That is what happens when you ask for good quality education.
It was a mess and continues to be. We were not provided with a nursing tutors, the mock hospital was closed 80% of the time, the nursing resource center - no employee there. We did not have a Director of Nursing either.
So we did study hard and we were self taught. Book stores were our second home.
Dec 5, '06Occupation: Clinical Informatics Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in ICU, IT ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 995; Likes: 25Our school requires an ATI every semester in addition to normal course work. You must score better than the national average to pass the test and the test must be passed to pass the class. The ATI doesn't count towards the class grade.
Dec 5, '06Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from cardiacRN2006I have to agree with Cardiac here. We also took HESI in addition to the ATI because our program is switching to HESI and they just wanted to see how we would do on it really, more as a practice test for the benefit of the next class, but not for ours.I hate to say this, because I'll probably get flamed. But, HESI was easy. I thought it represented my curriculum. I felt like I could answer all the questions presented to me using the critical thinking skills that I developed through the years of Nursing school tests. I felt like HESI and the NCLEX were easier than any test that I had to take in Nursing school (with the exception of the math tests). So I say, I AGREE with it being used this way. It will make the teachers teach what needs to be taught. If 90% of your class failed the HESI then that says a lot about what you were taught in school.
Sorry. But fair is fair. If you knew that it was required when you accepted your seat, they you have to play by their rules or find another program...
I thought HESI was much easier (if there is such a thing) and much closer to our cirriculum. Because of that, I did very well on HESI.
Now I guess I could have screamed bloody murder that they should have given me HESI instead of ATI but, the bottom line was ... I was still stuck with ATI. I knew it would be a very different test and that I was just going to have to deal with it. That's why me and my classmates bought all of the practice exams so we could prepare as much as possible.
Look .... we can whine and whine all we want but ... part of going to nursing school is learning how to take tough tests and rolling with the punches. I used to complain about this kind of stuff all the time and I realized I was just wasting my time and that I just better get to work and deal with it.
Life ain't fair and neither is nursing school. The funny thing is ... once I quit getting upset about this stuff and just accepted the realities of the situation ... I actually started testing a hellava lot better.
:typingLast edit by Sheri257 on Dec 6, '06
Dec 6, '06Joined: Dec '05; Posts: 11If one were to read the ATI closely enough , one can find ambiguos information. I used to read those books intently (i.e. cramming...in a good way) and I would check up on the bibliography. I realized then that the ATI book was snatches from a whole slew of textbooks that differentutilize. Now thats out of the way, I would take the practice tests, and after a while began to see the red boxes were better than the green. You know why? Because the rationale was better than anything else. The tests were worthless. Good nurses in my program failed them the first time around and bad students aced them (they also ended failing the NCLEX first time around). Sometimes I could find verbatim with a textbook in front of me, that said something completely opposite on the ATI practice test. There was a lot of that in maternity and psych. Any hoo, have a good day.
Dec 6, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58IS IT TRUE? The Napa Valley students won their case?
I hope so. Now the next question is why are the ATI and HESI allowing these colleges to mis use their exams????
Maybe they should seek some legal counseling against these colleges. Maybe the students attorney should ask these companies a few questions.
Dec 6, '06Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 58I also forgot to add that there are similar cases in Toledo, and in Florida. Both cases won.
IT IS WHAT IT IS - THE TRUTH!
Dec 6, '06Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 7,197; Likes: 7,920Quote from nursemihere is one "old" broad with tears for you, good luckI also forgot to add that there are similar cases in Toledo, and in Florida. Both cases won.
IT IS WHAT IT IS - THE TRUTH!
Dec 6, '06Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from MKZThat's been an ongoing problem with our nursing program from the beginning. Unfortunately, there just isn't much consistency in nursing academia no matter what book you're looking at.If one were to read the ATI closely enough , one can find ambiguous information ...
Sometimes I could find verbatim with a textbook in front of me, that said something completely opposite on the ATI practice test.
We'd always get test questions that never were mentioned in the book or, in any of the material we were given or, was totally contradicted in the material we were given. Finally, I figured out that I also needed study the NCLEX guides and do a ton of practice questions so I could figure out how to game the test, and that ended up helping me a lot.
In a weird way ... it also probably did prepare me for the ATI because, by then, I used to getting test questions that were totally out of left field.
And you're right ... the rationales in the ATI practice questions didn't always make a lot of sense and they were a lot different than anything we'd had before but, if you go through Saunders, Kaplan, etc. you'll see the same thing. None of NCLEX guides are consistent either.
So, what I focused on with ATI is: what are they driving at with these questions here? What is going on with this testing style? What are they looking for? In a lot of ways, you have to block out every other test you've ever taken and just focus on what these people are doing here.
It's really no different than trying to figure out what the teacher wants every time you start a new semester. Whatever you did on tests last semester doesn't matter anymore, you've got to adjust to the new teacher's testing style because it's always going to be different.
:typingLast edit by Sheri257 on Dec 6, '06
Dec 6, '06Occupation: Utilization Review, prior Intake Mgr Home Care Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Home Care, Vents, Telemetry, Home infusion ; From: PA, US ; Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 27,592; Likes: 13,831from napa valley register 13/6/06:
nvc nurse dispute decision expected soon