Medicare won't pay! - page 8
This is what happens when the government gets involved in health care. Comments?... Read More
Dec 30, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316Aetna is refusing to pay for the costs of anesthetics for colonoscopy screenings....
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/bu...tml?ref=healthLast edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 31, '07
Dec 30, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316the definition of social democracy:
social democracy is a political ideology that emerged in the late 19th century out of the socialist movement. modern social democracy is unlike socialism in the traditional sense which aims to end the predominance of the capitalist system, or in the marxist sense which aims to to replace it entirely; instead, social democrats aim to reform capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation of state sponsored programs and organizations which work to ameliorate or remove injustices inflicted by the capitalist market system. the term itself is also used to refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate. while some consider social democracy a moderate type of socialism, others, defining socialism in the traditional or marxist sense, reject that designation.
in general, contemporary social democrats support:
- a mixed economy consisting mainly of private enterprise, but with government owned or subsidized programs of education, healthcare, child care and related services for all citizens.
- government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
- advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
- an extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
- moderate to high levels of taxation (through a value-added and/or progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
- environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
- support for immigration and multiculturalism.
- a secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree. most social democrats support gay marriage and abortion rights.
- a foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
- as well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.
arguably certain resources should be managed for the common good. of which health care is a prime example.
most of the goals of social democrats are congruent with american political values and thoughts...Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 30, '07
Dec 30, '07Specialty: OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 2,340; Likes: 2,045Quote from morteRead FranemT's story, for an example of putting "in" service for so many years, and the paltry amount she receives on SSDI! It's not just a matter of $..........yes, retirement age should have been pushed upward a long time ago, should be well into the seventies by now...that is one of the biggest reasons for the prob....too many taking out, not enough putting in
The amount taken from our paychecks over the years is not the only source of Medicare money. For 48 years, more than $100.+ has been deducted each semimonthly paycheck for me. The fact that drugs which keep me well, are not included in the benefit, is a travesty!
Jan 9, '08Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 137; Likes: 105Quote from SuesquatchYour answer is somewhat simplistic. They surely do not all walk and bike more. We have a lot of extremely health-conscious people here, too, who exercise quite a bit.They walk and bike more, and eat less.
I have a simple question that I know is going to be very unpopular, but it needs to be asked. At what age do we decide that we are going to withhold treatment? Now, I certainly hope to live past 70, but why as a society do we consider it a right to be supported and medicated right into incontinent senility?
We have children foregoing immunizations and dental care and hungry and malnourished and cold and someone 70 is mad because they're not getting free tx that would support this hypothetical kid for a year.
NOT everyone in Canada and Europe gets every available tx. MANY people die before they can get tx because providers are limited - they leave. MANY peopl live a crippled half-life of pain for years before they can get the joint replacement they need.
The sad truth is the health care has to be rationed because it is, like everything else, a commodity. If this lady has a house she just may have to sell it.
I dunno. I see a lot of resources spent on the old - which cohort I am rapidly aproaching - and have to wonder when it became gospel that everyone was entitled to - and here, I'll say it - worth every tx they need.
Perhaps Europeans work less, pay less in taxes, get to stay home with their young children, and can relax more than we can, knowing that if they do take sick, they won't have to die due to no insurance or lose their homes, their savings, their everything just to pay the bill for health care. Here we can lose our very jobs for using too much sick time if our bosses don't like us and want to do apply the "too much sick time used" trick.
The closer I get to 70, 80, etc., the more of my loved ones who I see die in their 80's, the younger it seems to me, the more precious life becomes to me. When to pull the plug? When someone is beyond hope, to the very best of our ability to determine such, or wants to be let to pass on, I guess. Tough call. But a long time ago we started down the slippery slope of abortion on demand, taking God out of the schools, requiring bilingual education in the public schools, religious values being trashed, vows being violated by spouses, serious support for homosexual lifestyles (no, I'm not a homophobe and I dont hate homosexuals but I do think it is not a lifestyle blessed by God. I want no one to get hurt or mad, it's just my opinion. Yes, I have numerous homosxual friends and coworkers, yes, we get along, yes, I care for lots of homosexual patients, I just don't think it is the way God intended things to be. They tolerate me, as I tolerate them and the world keeps spinning. Then there came euthanasia and assisted suicide. Before too much longer, you will see us slide further and further, based on economics.
I know it takes money to provide health care but I think we need to value people and morality above the buck - which, by the way, is about to be replaced with the Amero, as the 3 countries that occupy the continent of North America are merged into basically a border-less one nation. (look up amero).
And this thing about no one can get it since Medicare won't pay for it is Socialism, pure and simple. And don't think for 1 single moment that private pay patients won't be able to get it under the table. It's called the black market. That's just life.Last edit by Weeping Willow on Jan 9, '08
Jan 9, '08Specialty: OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 2,340; Likes: 2,045Quote from Weeping WillowI'm not sure how you connected dissatisfaction with what Medicare provides or doesn't provide, with "socialism".
And this thing about no one can get it since Medicare won't pay for it is Socialism, pure and simple. And don't think for 1 single moment that private pay patients won't be able to get it under the table. It's called
the black market. That's just life.
Getting anything "outside the system" is not the "black market", it's capitalism = those with money can get what they pay for. Look at the Canadians whose conditions don't qualify them there for immediate joint replacement, heart, renal, and liver transplantation. They come here, have it immediately, for immediate payment (profiting hospitals and physicians who, if paid in cash may or may not report the entire amount paid, in their tax returns).
Jan 9, '08Specialty: OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 2,340; Likes: 2,045Quote from motorcycle mamaMotorcycle Mama:The Rapture is coming, just remember that and it makes no difference how bad life on earth is...I know exactly what you're talking about. A lot of people have been lulled into complacency with this belief, and there are a lot of people who love this...but I won't get into all that.
More cold hard facts...
As far as euthanasia as a common practice, as revolting as the idea sounds to most people, the government needs to control populations of the needy, elderly and infirm. Insurance benefits are already terrible and will only get worse. According to what I read, the Medicare system is collapsing, I don't even know why I pay into it, anymore. Where it used to be old people were to be protected and cared for they are now turning into a liability as the numbers explode. I go out in public and notice there are as many old people as young ones and sometimes it seems like there is more. And if I live long enough I'll be one someday...
You would have loved Hitler's "social democracy", weeding out all who seemed unnecesary or loathsome to him, in gas ovens, starving and working in horrible slavery. Euthanasia is not that, it is the shortening of moribund patients' time in excruciating pain without hope, according to their physicians, of living a more satisfactory life.
When you go out, it may seem that the population where you happen to be, is not what statistics show it to be. Younger people are inside, working during most days. Older people go to sleep earlier than younger ones, so it depends on the time of day, too.
Jan 9, '08Specialty: OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 2,340; Likes: 2,045Quote from Arwen_U__________________________________________________ ___________I live in NC, which is #5 in the country (behind CA, FL, NY, and TX) in sheer numbers of undocumented immigrants. So yes, I have seen where they are. They are my family and friends on top of all that. I've worked with them, eaten supper with them, cried with them, prayed with them, you name it.
Yes, I understand that plenty of people get critically ill crossing the border. I have talked with enough people and heard their stories firsthand. I understand all that. But something is wrong with a) the immigration system that makes it so daggone difficult for people to get here legally in the first place; and b) the system that appropriates the same amt of funding for hospitals in oh, say, North Dakota, as for the ones in Arizona and Texas.
The undocumented immigrant issue is a symptom, not the problem itself.
Where there are symptoms, there's a problem.
The above, and other posts present another thread. Let's call it "The Effect of Non Tax Paying Healthcare Consumers, on our Tax Paying Consumers"
No one really knows the # of illegals we have in this country, and the stat presented a few posts ago is not true, it's official. Each day 100s, if not 1000s of illegal migrant arrivals occur, evidenced by the increase of Spanish only speaking people there are. In Williamsburg, Virginia 5 years ago, there wasn't 1 Mexican restaurant. Now there are at least a dozen, and 1 Thai restaurant. "Natural" food markets didn't survive, but Latina ones are popping up and do prosper here.
Before I came here, in California I didn't get government Public Health jobs despite my good speaking ability in Spanish, because I wasn't
Specialty: OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 2,340; Likes: 2,045Quote from Suesquatch__________________________________________________ _______Y'know, every time you guys defend the systems in place in other countries you say "despite the problems" and the "things they're trying to correct."
This says that there are endemic problems in those systems, as well. And I am not willing to swap out a broken system for one that's a little less broken.
Yes, the US health care system bites. But don't even try to defend the NHS to me. That's another system under which people with money get better treatment because they pick up private insurance to cover it.
When you find healthcare eutopia, please let us know.
"It is human to err". Some flaws in any healthcare delivery system exist, but when weighed against the ones in ours qualitatively, others are better (except in 3rd world countries).
Flag waving is fine, but we all know our deficits, and need to work hard for improvement by voting wisely, calling our government representatives to remind them of our past support for them, and need to have them address adverse conditions realistically.
Jan 9, '08Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 137; Likes: 105Quote from jzzy88Hitler's Dr. Mengele did this. Remember Auschwitz and the other death camps? Lethal injections were phenol. Directly into the hearts of the worthless vermin, as he deemed most of Europe, and in just a couple of minutes, boom, vermin gone. I think, though, that maybe the gas chambers were quicker and cheaper. They could accommodate up to 300 or was it 3000 poor souls at once, they all breathed the same cyanide, and in a half hour or so, they were all dead - well, mostly. Sometimes, they were still moving a little when put into the ovens. Then their hair could be removed and processed into some supply for the Nazi war effort along with their gold teeth (sort of how we use aborted babies for whatever they are used for - I mean no disrepect to these precious little babes I just can't think right now of what is done with them in lieu of throwing them out in the trash.:angryfireJust a little sarcasm to add to the debate:
Only the elite have the right to live and all of the other people that can't pay for health care should just crawl into a hole and die. Why not just set up mass "euthanasia" centers where all of the poor, from our country and abroad, get lethal injections so that the rest of the elite can relish in all of their stuff. Lets just spend every last dime on war and destruction because it makes more sense. Oh but I forgot the "rapture" is coming anyway so it doesn't matter anyway.
That was only one holocaust. Take Bosnia, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Uganda, now Kenya; anywhere else you hear the term "ethnic cleansing" and you've got another holocaust. Someone thinks he is better than someone else of a different color or religion or political ideology and that megalomaniac starts gathering to himself the manpower, materiel, and weapons to destroy his enemy and there you have it - another holocaust, more mass murder. Weapons, always weapons. Disarm the populace. We need the arms to kill those who are different among us.
We are somehow more deserving of the land, the water, the resources below the land and on it and in the very air than is the next guy, who looks differently than I do, who dresses funny and worships a different god, who has an accent.
Well, comrades, we have a bigger stick, thus more of a right to live. God is on our side. And our young people are willing to die for this cause. There's the real weapon - the young people. And so it begins. Strike up the band. Get out the patriotic songs. Remind the populace over and over that we were attacked! Show the death and destruction on TV, over and over, every night at dinner time. Talk it up in school. Make patriots out of our little children and get them to tell Teacher if Mommy or Daddy disagrees with what Teacher tells them. Split the family. Old ones remember the way it used to be. We want the young minds, impressionable, uncluttered with history or family, the tabla rasa. We will shape and train them our way.
And unstoppable it is, as long as there are enough young people who are willing to do for it. The torturing, the exclusion from normal daily life, the labeling, the terror, the killing and before you know it, all out murder, blood in the streets. Concern for the health, education, and general well-being of our neighbor goes flying out the window as we try to survive with our heads on. We are reduced to animals, just surviving, looking the other way just to get throught the day, because how can we stop a mass murderer when we didn't stockpile weapons, gold, oil, the right friends? Hoping they don't come tonight for us. :angryfire
We didn't know they were murdering. You didn't hear the screams and the barking dogs, the gunshots? You didn't see the smokestacks and the tons of ashes in the river? Well, did you see the smoke and smell the awful stench of the rotting and burning bodies? Well, maybe we did see trains carrying them in, yes, we heard some screams, we saw some things through the fences. But we'd have been in the smokestacks with them, felt the lash, the cold, the starvation, the terror along with them, had we tried to intervene. We helped as best we could. We prayed for them. We sometimes slipped a little extra bread to them for their bloated and starving bellies or newspaper for putting under their thin coats. It sounds like so little but we could have been shot, sent to concentration camp ourselves, utterly destroyed ourselves for trying to help them escape the mad man and his henchmen.
And so it is that madmen must be stopped before they get too big. Slippery slopes, right and wrong. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
The Rapture sounds pretty good right now.
Jan 9, '08From: US ; Joined: Jan '06; Posts: 13,193; Likes: 17,910Quote from lamazeteacherFlag waving? Beg pardon? I did no such thing, and that was a cheap shot.Flag waving is fine, but we all know our deficits, and need to work hard for improvement by voting wisely, calling our government representatives to remind them of our past support for them, and need to have them address adverse conditions realistically.
And of course it's simplistic, Weeping Willow. I'm posting, not writing a dissertation.
I have no utopia. However, I have friends and relatives here and in Canada and throughout Europe and none of them are sanguine about how wonderful their health care is, and they all carry private coverage as well.
Jan 9, '08Occupation: RN-i (RETIRED) Specialty: ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89 ; From: US ; Joined: May '00; Posts: 14,479; Likes: 2,298This thread has veered too far off topic. Thread closed for moderator consideration.