Lack of nurses? Real problem could be a lack of professors

  1. A shortage of nursing professors, not poor grades, has kept some interested students from enrolling in nursing programs.

    More... Lack of nurses? Real problem could be a lack of professors (The Scranton Times-Tribune)


    One of the biggest issues with attracting nurses to become professors is the salary, Dr. Clark said. A nursing professor with a master’s degree starts at $35,000 at the college.

    When nurses graduate, they’ll make more than their professors, she said. The average salary for a nurse is between $50,000 and $60,000.

    Since the college is unionized, the department cannot offer special salaries to nursing professors. Many of them work outside of teaching, Dr. Clark said. “There’s not a lot of incentive to come to academia,” she said.
    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on May 6, '07
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    17 Comments

  3. by   BULLYDAWGRN
    I agree that lack of instructors may have something to do with low census of nurses. But there are other roles that seem to get left out of newspapers and the public light. A unit director that I'm fishing pals with goes to different high schools in the area to talk to students about becoming interested in the nurse proffession. He said that there is a far more majority of students that don't want to have anything to do with nursing, he stated that most of the high school students were more interested in other healthcare related feilds such as pt,ot,st, and pharmacy is a big thing now for students and of course pre med. The reason for these choices were made quite clear from the students, many of them have parents or older siblings that are or were nurses and they stated that they did not want the stress and increased pressure plus lousy hours of work for the little amount of pay and respect that they saw their family members get. They would just as soon stay in school a few more yrs and get a better paying feild with better hrs without worrying about having your feet ran off every shift. Now this swing in things is much different from when I graduated in the late 90's when everyone and their grandmother wanted to be a nurse, but he stated the trend now amoung highschool kids with the academics to enter a nursing program are just opting to go into something else.
  4. by   llg
    I was just invited to interview for an upper level faculty position and am turning it down -- not because of the money, but because of the "unfriendly" attitude of the person filling the position. Instead of treating me in a welcoming manner as if she were interested in having me maybe come and work for her school, she has consistently treated me as if I should bow down and kiss her feet in gratitude that they would even consider letting me join their faculty.

    I am prepared to take a pay cut, but I don't want to be treated like dirt. So, I am declining the interview and withdrawing my application. I'll stick with my hopsital job for the moment, even though I am not particularly happy there at the moment.
  5. by   CHATSDALE
    bully dog has a point..my dgd is freshman now..says she will go into nursing because she would like to be a nurse anestheist [sp] but both of her parents are rns and she doesn't really want to get into the hospital end of it..maybe she will change her mind, she wanted to be chemistry instructor at one point in time but the point is that many potential nusrsing students are more knowledgeable and are definitely being pinted in other directions by family parents
    lig, that person that interviewed you: you might never see here again, that kind of person is not a long timer and even if she was your paths might never cross again.we really need good instructors...give it some thought
  6. by   llg
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    lig, that person that interviewed you: you might never see here again, that kind of person is not a long timer and even if she was your paths might never cross again.we really need good instructors...give it some thought
    I'm sorry to have to tell you ... but that person is the head of the department and she's been there for years. She would be my boss.

    I've taught before and I have lots of friends who have taught. A lot of people would like to teach, but won't because of the way many school administrations treat the faculty members. For many of us, it's not just the money, it's the quality of life. Believe it or not, hospital work can be better sometimes.
  7. by   JaneyW
    I am half-way through my MSN with plans to teach. I just wrote a paper on the faculty shortage and the response by government and hospitals. In California, thousands are turned away from programs each semester due to lack of faculty. You can only expand programs as far as you have teachers! Keep looking, LLG--I'm sure there is a better place. I already have two schools (one my alma mater!) making friendly overtures to me. That makes me feel good about being at either place. I absolutely agree with what you are saying. They should be excited about your interest. Come to California--there are faculty jobs aplenty!!
  8. by   oramar
    Quote from BULLYDAWGRN
    . He said that there is a far more majority of students that don't want to have anything to do with nursing, he stated that most of the high school students were more interested in other healthcare related feilds such as pt,ot,st, and pharmacy is a big thing now for students and of course pre med. The reason for these choices were made quite clear from the students, many of them have parents or older siblings that are or were nurses and they stated that they did not want the stress and increased pressure plus lousy hours of work for the little amount of pay and respect that they saw their family members get. They would just as soon stay in school a few more yrs and get a better paying feild with better hrs without worrying about having your feet ran off every shift. Now this swing in things is much different from when I graduated in the late 90's when everyone and their grandmother wanted to be a nurse, but he stated the trend now amoung highschool kids with the academics to enter a nursing program are just opting to go into something else.
    The truth is that if a person has a nurse in the family they more than likely have heard bad things about the profession. Not always true but more often than not.
  9. by   HM2VikingRN
    MN is short about 80 faculty members which equals about 640 fewer training seats available for students :<<. (Assuming 8 students:1 faculty)
  10. by   llg
    My problem finding a faculty job is that there is not a match between my area of clinical competence (NICU) and the rotations that entry-level instructors are needed to teach. Never having worked Peds or OB, I can't really teach those clinical rotations.

    Also, I have a PhD ... which puts me at a rank higher than the typical new faculty member who starts as an Instructor. Having spent most of my career in leadership roles, I am more qualified to teach leadership courses, theory, introduction to research, etc. However, those teaching assignments are considered the plumb teaching assignments, reserved for the faculty members who have been at a particular school for a long time. They don't want to give courses like those to the new person on the faculty.

    So ... I don't "fit" -- and neither do the other PhD's who have spent most of their careers in the practice arena rather than working up the academic career ladder. It's a mismatch. In fact, when I was graduating with my PhD several years ago, a leading academic nursing conference included a panel discussion on how new grad PhD's were not able to "cross over" and find jobs in the academic world because their career paths did not match the old traditional path of being a clinical Instructor with an MSN and then getting their PhD's after they had build up seniority within the university system. Those of us who entered PhD programs from the practice arena were having problems finding jobs. We still are.

    We are out here and many of us would love to help solve the faculty shortage. We have spent years in the practice arena and have a lot to offer students. We have done well financially and don't mind easing into retirement by teaching a few courses for the local nursing school. But we don't fit the traditional model of career paths and the schools are not adapting to the changing needs of the 21st century faculty workforce. That's the part of the faculty shortage no one wants to talk about. They would rather blame the money situation than face the fact that they have been turning away qualified faculty for years. They want either:
    1. MSN-prepared entry-level faculty members to serve as clinical instructors for beginner-level students.
    2. Senior academicians and researchers who have spent careers climbing the academic career ladder with a track record of research grants, publications, etc.

    Someone like me with a PhD and tons of practical experience in leadership positions actually making things work in a hospital, doing staff development and continuing education, active in professional organizations, etc. ... well, we just don't fit their mold and they look down their noses at us.

    I've also talked to instructors who have been treated so badly by their schools that it is ridiculous -- and I myself, was treated badly by one former university employer. I know some schools whose faculty positions turn over continuously because the faculty is so dissatisfied with how they are treated. Each new person is optimist when hired, but within a year, they are in my office telling me how terrible it is to work for their school. They quit and I see the same thing happen the next year with the new person hired. It's a revolving door ... but instead of addressing the underlying problems, the schools just keep hiring new people, many of whom are a little less qualified than the ones who left the year before. The "good people" have all learned that these are terrible employers to work for.

    Then the schools whine about the faculty shortage and ask us for money -- as if that were the root cause of the problem.

    Do I sound a little bitter?
    Last edit by llg on May 6, '07
  11. by   oramar
    Quote from llg
    My problem finding a faculty job is that there is not a match between my area of clinical competence (NICU) and the rotations that entry-level instructors are needed to teach. Never having worked Peds or OB, I can't really teach those clinical rotations.

    Also, I have a PhD ... which puts me at a rank higher than the typical new faculty member who starts as an Instructor. Having spent most of my career in leadership roles, I am more qualified to teach leadership courses, theory, introduction to research, etc. However, those teaching assignments are considered the plumb teaching assignments, reserved for the faculty members who have been at a particular school for a long time. They don't want to give courses like those to the new person on the faculty.

    So ... I don't "fit" -- and neither do the other PhD's who have spent most of their careers in the practice arena rather than working up the academic career ladder. It's a mismatch. In fact, when I was graduating with my PhD several years ago, a leading academic nursing conference included a panel discussion on how new grad PhD's were not able to "cross over" and find jobs in the academic world because their career paths did not match the old traditional path of being a clinical Instructor with an MSN and then getting their PhD's after they had build up seniority within the university system. Those of us who entered PhD programs from the practice arena were having problems finding jobs. We still are.

    We are out here and many of us would love to help solve the faculty shortage. We have spent years in the practice arena and have a lot to offer students. We have done well financially and don't mind easing into retirement by teaching a few courses for the local nursing school. But we don't fit the traditional model of career paths and the schools are not adapting to the changing needs of the 21st century faculty workforce. That's the part of the faculty shortage no one wants to talk about. They would rather blame the money situation than face the fact that they have been turning away qualified faculty for years. They want either:
    1. MSN-prepared entry-level faculty members to serve as clinical instructors for beginner-level students.
    2. Senior academicians and researchers who have spent careers climbing the academic career ladder with a track record of research grants, publications, etc.

    Someone like me with a PhD and tons of practical experience in leadership positions actually making things work in a hospital, doing staff development and continuing education, active in professional organizations, etc. ... well, we just don't fit their mold and they look down their noses at us.

    I've also talked to instructors who have been treated so badly by their schools that it is ridiculous -- and I myself, was treated badly by one former university employer. I know some schools whose faculty positions turn over continuously because the faculty is so dissatisfied with how they are treated. Each new person is optimist when hired, but within a year, they are in my office telling me how terrible it is to work for their school. They quit and I see the same thing happen the next year with the new person hired. It's a revolving door ... but instead of addressing the underlying problems, the schools just keep hiring new people, many of whom are a little less qualified than the ones who left the year before. The "good people" have all learned that these are terrible employers to work for.

    Then the schools whine about the faculty shortage and ask us for money -- as if that were the root cause of the problem.

    Do I sound a little bitter?
    No you don't sound bitter to me. Just a person talking about the real world. Most news articles about nursing shortage are about increasing the number of new nurses and immigration. There will be one line about retention which is usually and afterthought. No reasons why the world of nurse educators would be any different. Just no respect out there.
  12. by   KMSRN
    Quote from llg
    Someone like me with a PhD and tons of practical experience in leadership positions actually making things work in a hospital, doing staff development and continuing education, active in professional organizations, etc. ... well, we just don't fit their mold and they look down their noses at us.
    This is too bad - you would probably make the best teacher. I just graduated with an MSN last year and a lot of the full time PhD professors don't seem to be grounded in (or aware of) the reality of nursing. Nursing needs good, motivated people with real-life experience to teach and take over the leadership positions in nursing schools.

    Good luck with your job seach - I hope you find a good job where you can make a difference.
  13. by   scooterRN52
    Quote from Nursing News
    A shortage of nursing professors, not poor grades, has kept some interested students from enrolling in nursing programs.

    More... Lack of nurses? Real problem could be a lack of professors (The Scranton Times-Tribune)
    Quote from llg
    I was just invited to interview for an upper level faculty position and am turning it down -- not because of the money, but because of the "unfriendly" attitude of the person filling the position. Instead of treating me in a welcoming manner as if she were interested in having me maybe come and work for her school, she has consistently treated me as if I should bow down and kiss her feet in gratitude that they would even consider letting me join their faculty.

    I am prepared to take a pay cut, but I don't want to be treated like dirt. So, I am declining the interview and withdrawing my application. I'll stick with my hopsital job for the moment, even though I am not particularly happy there at the moment.
    I am 57 years old and do not qualifiy to teach because I went to a 2 year
    program for nurses. The state of nursing is appauling and yes we need some young new nurses, but we as nurses should be appreciated,respected
    and paid better for the responsibility we carry and the hard work we do.
    If I had more education I would do CRNA or CLNC those two seem to get more of everything I mentioned. I remain on staff at a hospital doing every other weekend and nights at 7pm-7am. I make more money that way and
    there is less aggravation.I will probably look for something on days soon.
  14. by   scooterRN52
    Quote from llg
    My problem finding a faculty job is that there is not a match between my area of clinical competence (NICU) and the rotations that entry-level instructors are needed to teach. Never having worked Peds or OB, I can't really teach those clinical rotations.

    Also, I have a PhD ... which puts me at a rank higher than the typical new faculty member who starts as an Instructor. Having spent most of my career in leadership roles, I am more qualified to teach leadership courses, theory, introduction to research, etc. However, those teaching assignments are considered the plumb teaching assignments, reserved for the faculty members who have been at a particular school for a long time. They don't want to give courses like those to the new person on the faculty.

    So ... I don't "fit" -- and neither do the other PhD's who have spent most of their careers in the practice arena rather than working up the academic career ladder. It's a mismatch. In fact, when I was graduating with my PhD several years ago, a leading academic nursing conference included a panel discussion on how new grad PhD's were not able to "cross over" and find jobs in the academic world because their career paths did not match the old traditional path of being a clinical Instructor with an MSN and then getting their PhD's after they had build up seniority within the university system. Those of us who entered PhD programs from the practice arena were having problems finding jobs. We still are.

    We are out here and many of us would love to help solve the faculty shortage. We have spent years in the practice arena and have a lot to offer students. We have done well financially and don't mind easing into retirement by teaching a few courses for the local nursing school. But we don't fit the traditional model of career paths and the schools are not adapting to the changing needs of the 21st century faculty workforce. That's the part of the faculty shortage no one wants to talk about. They would rather blame the money situation than face the fact that they have been turning away qualified faculty for years. They want either:
    1. MSN-prepared entry-level faculty members to serve as clinical instructors for beginner-level students.
    2. Senior academicians and researchers who have spent careers climbing the academic career ladder with a track record of research grants, publications, etc.

    Someone like me with a PhD and tons of practical experience in leadership positions actually making things work in a hospital, doing staff development and continuing education, active in professional organizations, etc. ... well, we just don't fit their mold and they look down their noses at us.

    I've also talked to instructors who have been treated so badly by their schools that it is ridiculous -- and I myself, was treated badly by one former university employer. I know some schools whose faculty positions turn over continuously because the faculty is so dissatisfied with how they are treated. Each new person is optimist when hired, but within a year, they are in my office telling me how terrible it is to work for their school. They quit and I see the same thing happen the next year with the new person hired. It's a revolving door ... but instead of addressing the underlying problems, the schools just keep hiring new people, many of whom are a little less qualified than the ones who left the year before. The "good people" have all learned that these are terrible employers to work for.

    Then the schools whine about the faculty shortage and ask us for money -- as if that were the root cause of the problem.

    Do I sound a little bitter?
    You are so right and have reason to be bitter, it is difficult to work in a system that is broken down that way. You seem to have so much practical
    expertise with all your previous experience that you would be an excellent
    teacher. I t is ashame that those directors that are hiring for faculty positions can't see that. The system pushes education, but when you get there you can't use it and they won't pay you what your worth.

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