Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed? - page 4

immigration: more foreign nurses needed? full article at business week... Read More

  1. by   javaline
    ghillbert the foreign nurse will have to learn a whole new way of life, the foreign nurse will have to learn the language, the foreign nurse will even have to learn how to get to and from work as well as being oriented to the floor, staff and so on. So in essence, the foreign nurse is on the same scale as a new grad. Again, no offense as you seem to have quite a big chip on your shoulder..
  2. by   AtomicWoman
    "There is NO requirement to hire a USC before anyone else, UNLESS THEY HAVE EQUIVALENT SKILLS."

    Therein lies a big part of the problem. The "equivalent skills" part is so easy to manipulate, it might as well not be a "requirement." The hiring manager for a software firm (a friend of mine) told me how she did it. She figured out who she wanted to hire from, say, India. She then wrote a job description that EXACTLY matched that person's skill set and experience, point for point. She published the job ad and marked the resume of everyone except the target employee as "skills do not match job requirements" or something similar. Thus, she could "prove" that the person in India was the only person who met the job requirements. Oh, and that person in India was often coached on how to pad their resume. Little-to-no checking of the person's claims of skills and experience was done.

    The same thing could be done with nurses: "The successful candidate must have XXX years in XXX nursing. They must have XXX certifications". And on and on, until the chances of finding anyone other than the already-chosen employee to match the job requirements would be just about nil. So the "equivalent skills" requirement is pretty much a joke and should provide US citizens with little confidence that jobs will only go to imported nurses if no US citizen with equivalent skills is available to take the job.
  3. by   Skeletor
    Quote from javaline
    the foreign nurse will have to learn a whole new way of life, the foreign nurse will have to learn the language, the foreign nurse will even have to learn how to get to and from work as well as being oriented to the floor, staff and so on
    Having considerable knowledge of the American culture is priceless when it comes to bedside nursing.

    That is something no experienced foreign nurse can bring to the table that a new graduate nurse could not.

    I would love to hear others' opinions on their experiences working with foreign nurses and how those nurses interact with staff and patients in general.

    I have encountered foreign nurses who barely speak a word of English. They speak in their native language to their foreign counterparts in the hallways and in a patient's room.

    Do you think that is conducive to a healthy work environment

    Imagine how patients must feel hearing a foreign language being spoken by a nurse about to start their intravenous infusion.

    I wouldn't take my vehicle to a mechanic who did not speak English, would you
  4. by   DolceVita
    Quote from DIC Harwould
    Having considerable knowledge of the American culture is priceless when it comes to bedside nursing.

    That is something no experienced foreign nurse can bring to the table that a new graduate nurse could not.

    I would love to hear others' opinions on their experiences working with foreign nurses and how those nurses interact with staff and patients in general.

    I have encountered foreign nurses who barely speak a word of English. They speak in their native language to their foreign counterparts in the hallways and in a patient's room.

    Do you think that is conducive to a healthy work environment

    Imagine how patients must feel hearing a foreign language being spoken by a nurse about to start their intravenous infusion.

    I wouldn't take my vehicle to a mechanic who did not speak English, would you
    I really don't like where this post is going. This seems like an open invitation to bash foreigners and use caricatures/stereotypes of non-american nurses as support for an argument to stop foreign nurses coming into the country. This is hardly the way educated professionals should debate.
    Last edit by DolceVita on Jun 24, '09
  5. by   kurandagirl
    Quote from ghillbert
    Sigh - this gets really boring. I'm sure this EXACT Obama quote was posted in an article previously and we already had this whole argument.

    PS: EmilyLucille - a new grad is not equivalent to an experienced RN - the shortage is in experienced/specialty nurses.

    Signed - a foreigner.
    I have to agree with this fundamental point, that the shortage exists in experienced nurses. Unfortunate for the new grads, but if the post requires experience, the fact is that an inexperienced nurse without solid support and continuing education(which costs money) actually increases the risk to sick patients. You cant just have 'bums on seats' so to speak. But the new grads have so much potential to become experienced if only they had the infrastructure to develop this invaluable experience. I am Australian and worked in London in a busy trauma ICU, and as a foreigner, my experience was valued. Now back home in sydney, i support new grads that have been employed in our large ICU straight from uni. It can be very dangerous, if they are not adequately supported, so unless the education is invested in, i have to support experience wherever it comes from.
  6. by   SouthernComfort31
    Quote from kurandagirl
    But the new grads have so much potential to become experienced if only they had the infrastructure to develop this invaluable experience. I am Australian and worked in London in a busy trauma ICU, and as a foreigner, my experience was valued. Now back home in sydney, i support new grads that have been employed in our large ICU straight from uni. It can be very dangerous, if they are not adequately supported, so unless the education is invested in, i have to support experience wherever it comes from.

    I admire your commitment to teaching after you have gained the experience!

    This is something I truly plan to do: once I get hired (I'm a new grad) and gain experience; I plan to practice clinically and spend some time teaching as well; either through clinical instruction for nursing students or orientation programs for new grads/unit nurses. Now just have to land that first job...
  7. by   FireStarterRN
  8. by   MedSurgeMess
    What's to keep the immigrants from going to the big city hospital once they get here? I think we should hire the nurses here that are looking for jobs first, THEN worry about importing. Yes, many are new grads, but the reality is that not all foreign nurses are trained the same as we are here, plus there may be language barriers, and cultural orientation needs to be met from both sides. New grads need to get the experience.
  9. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from SFRN
    We ABSOLUTELY DO NOT NEED TO IMPORT any more foreign nurses, American educated nurses are finding it difficult to find a job!!! I was pleased to read the the President echoes what we already know---WE NEED to have more teaching facilities and educators to teach those that want to enter the nursing profession.
    We don't even need more teachers and teaching facilities. New grads are having trouble getting hired now. The last thing we need is more new grads. And we also need no more imported nurses.

    This is just another case of boss vs. worker, money vs. poor, power vs. wage slave. Those with money want to keep it, not pay it to workers (nurses).

    I'm telling you, people, you had better write to your Reps and Senators TODAY and tell them nurses are abundant. We just need better working conditions and pay to find nurses right here in the good old US of A, to take care of ourselves.
  10. by   pinfinity
    ...I have found foreign nurses to be just as capable of incompetence in the profession as any US born and bred nurse. They just cost less, don't complain, and are generally oblivious to the problems we face as a whole so; effectively, management gets their money's worth.
  11. by   Akinna
    Quote from Vito Andolini
    We don't even need more teachers and teaching facilities. New grads are having trouble getting hired now. The last thing we need is more new grads. And we also need no more imported nurses.

    This is just another case of boss vs. worker, money vs. poor, power vs. wage slave. Those with money want to keep it, not pay it to workers (nurses).

    I'm telling you, people, you had better write to your Reps and Senators TODAY and tell them nurses are abundant. We just need better working conditions and pay to find nurses right here in the good old US of A, to take care of ourselves.
    sam74 Jun 24, 2009 5:52 PM GMT Okay bleeding hearts, here is the deal. It's called free market. You did shed these tears when the previous US governments shoved the free market principle and globalization down the throats of developing countries. So if Coke and Pepsi can sell their products for cheap in my country and drive local businesses out out, I sure can come to US and sell my services here. If you want $10 to do your work, I'll work for $5. If you find yourself outta work, well boohoo. No one wants to hear you whine. In this era of market liberalization no one is entitled to a job just because they were born in that area... Learn to deal with it.

    http://app.businessweek.com/UserComm...oductCode=spec

    Reading about we do not need even new grad nurses or instructors, starts to sound like above argument taken from businessweek article.
    Everyone is out for themselves, grab and run. These are very sad statements.
  12. by   ghillbert
    Quote from AtomicWoman
    Therein lies a big part of the problem. The "equivalent skills" part is so easy to manipulate, it might as well not be a "requirement." The hiring manager for a software firm (a friend of mine) told me how she did it. She figured out who she wanted to hire from, say, India. She then wrote a job description that EXACTLY matched that person's skill set and experience, point for point. She published the job ad and marked the resume of everyone except the target employee as "skills do not match job requirements" or something similar. Thus, she could "prove" that the person in India was the only person who met the job requirements. Oh, and that person in India was often coached on how to pad their resume. Little-to-no checking of the person's claims of skills and experience was done.
    You are absolutely correct - whatever the system, someone will work out a way to exploit it. It only bothers me when this is assumed to be the rule, rather than exception.

    Quote from DIC Harwould
    I would love to hear others' opinions on their experiences working with foreign nurses and how those nurses interact with staff and patients in general.blah blah blah

    I have encountered foreign nurses who barely speak a word of English. They speak in their native language to their foreign counterparts in the hallways and in a patient's room.

    Do you think that is conducive to a healthy work environment

    Imagine how patients must feel hearing a foreign language being spoken by a nurse about to start their intravenous infusion.

    I wouldn't take my vehicle to a mechanic who did not speak English, would you
    It is impolite and ignorant to speak in a different language than your colleagues in any situation. However - not all foreign nurses are deficient in english... some of us are even native english speakers!

    Quote from SouthernComfort31
    ghillbert: how do you feel about the "brain drain" that happens to the country that loses their skilled nursing professional to the USA? I'm not sure where you are from; is there a similar nursing shortage in your home country?
    I'm sure it's an issue. However, nursing is a transient profession. People come and go. Particularly from Australia, because it's so remote, a lot of people go overseas for more varied experienced with a bigger population. But most people come back, for quality of life issues, after gaining that experience. I think that can only be a positive thing for the profession. Global experiences are enriching and valuable in my opinion - advancing your professional status and taking it home seems smart to me.

    Quote from javaline
    ghillbert the foreign nurse will have to learn a whole new way of life, the foreign nurse will have to learn the language, the foreign nurse will even have to learn how to get to and from work as well as being oriented to the floor, staff and so on. So in essence, the foreign nurse is on the same scale as a new grad. Again, no offense as you seem to have quite a big chip on your shoulder..
    Yes, I probably do have a big chip on my shoulder with regard to this issue. Blanket statements such as "the foreign nurse will have to learn the language, the foreign nurse will have to learn how to get to and from work"... and "in essence, the foreign nurse is on the same scale as a new grad" are ignorant and incorrect. Generalizations usually are.

    In an ideal world, would americans rather that there were NO foreign nurses - do you not think there is a wide world out there, with valuable lessons to be learned from your international counterparts? Nursing is a team sport, and learning from others - to me - is a great thing.

    Honestly - I am very logical and reasoned as a rule. However as a foreign nurse who is a native english speaker and very highly specialized in my field, who was recruited to the US, it bothers me to see statements like some of the ones in this thread. I am gaining knowledge and experience in the US, but I am *not* equivalent to a new grad.
  13. by   Troublant RN
    You are absolutely right. The government needs to pump money into BSN to MSN programs, and MSN to Doctorate degrees in nursing to decrease the great shortage of qualified teaching staff across the country. Moneys need to be invested in expanding impacted nursing programs across the country so we can graduate more nurses. In times of shortage this is difficult to do, but we must push for BSN degrees to be the entry level standard for RN's in the US....for beginners. Nurses are not highly regarded in interdisciplinary groups as they are often the member with the least amount of education.

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