Fox reports on shortage and legislation to bring in foreign nurses - page 6
I was watching Fox and Friends this morning and they had a report about the 135,000 unfilled nursing positions open in the US. They talked about the projection that by 2015 there will be a 500,000... Read More
Apr 29, '09Joined: May '07; Posts: 608; Likes: 402Quote from AnyausaYou don't need statistics, just look around at your local hospital and the proof is obvious.Give me some statistics or your recent observation about how many foreign nurses got job INSTEAD OF american nurses educated here.
Looking forward to hear it, than we can talk about this problem more...
Apr 29, '09Joined: May '07; Posts: 608; Likes: 402Quote from new york new yorki couldn't disagree any more. . .read the department of homeland security's ombudsman's report on the nursing shortage. importing international nurses does not take away jobs from american nurses.
we should welcome with open arms, and be grateful to the talented internantional nurses who want to work in america.
importing international nurses does not take away jobs from american nurses. . . what is wrong with this statement? think about it for one moment
we should welcome with open arms, and be grateful to the talented internantional nurses who want to work in america. . . what about welcoming american nurses who wish to work in america...what is wrong with your statement?
i really try to understand everyone's point of view. . . i'm struggling to understand yours. . .
Apr 29, '09Occupation: Lpn/charge nurse and house manager Specialty: long term care, psychiatric setting ; From: US ; Joined: Dec '08; Posts: 44; Likes: 30I am a foreigner, but I agree with you guys. I was raised in this country and am a legal alien. I believe that nurses who were born and raised here should be hired first. i too am a new lpn graduate and been unable to find a job since I graduated on august 1, 2008. I went on my 3rd interview today and was finally hired (I thought I was hired the last time). the only reason why i thought i have a chance with this job is because the nurse who recommended me are good friends with the DON. The DON told me today as she interviewed me that she would not have hired me if it wasn't for her employee. they are not hiring new grads. I have applied for many many positions to no avail. this is a shame because although im not a citizen, I too pay taxes and have no intention of going back home to live (I will be naturalizing myself now that i'll be making more money since its costly to do). I do not take anything to offense to any of these blogs since they are true. good luck to you all.
Apr 29, '09Occupation: ED Nurse Specialty: ED, Hyperbarics, EMS ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '08; Posts: 56; Likes: 26I think the most relevant question here is not "are foreign nurses taking jobs away from U.S. nurses?" but rather "what is the market forces that are driving this recruitment of foreign nurses?" and "Why are business people and politicians pushing to import more foreign labor?"
I think it's a bad thing, not because I'm being xenophobic, but because from an economics perspective, it -is- a bad thing. Foreign nurses routinely work for less then their American counterpart, I don't have a citation, but I would be challenged to find significant evidence that contradicts that. Normally, the market would "set it's own rates," and if a job paid reasonably and had decent working conditions, it would be filled. If a job had poor working conditions or didn't pay appropriately, it would remain vacant. Either working conditions or pay would have to improve in order to fill that position. (In simple terms, either make the job suck less or pay more to compensate for the suck.) Free market economics -should- work in this instance, except now we are introducing an outside factor...
Many people say "foreign nurses are only doing jobs Americans won't." To which I ask: "Why won't Americans work that job? What is -wrong- with it?" Many new grads (myself included) are looking for work, and willing to go to great lengths to get it. So why would that job be passed over? So obviously, there is something wrong with a job (maybe it's Adak, Alaska, and noone wants to work on a remote island, or working an urgent care clinic on a reservation, where the pay can be pretty miserable...) and the market should CORRECT for that problem.
However, we are giving Hospital Administration and the "business people" that drive Medicine a third option. Instead of fixing the problem or "correcting" the situation (either via pay or some type of working conditions change, such as more paid time off,) we are allowing them to IGNORE the problem, and import a foreign worker to fill the position, usually for cheaper then it would be to have an American do the job. (So it's a double-win for the shareholder: Not only didn't they have to fix the problem, but they are saving money with the so-called solution.) How is that a good solution?
I have no contention with regard to the skills and experience of a foreign born medical professional, at least until they prove that they are not up to the standard. I know of many people of other nationalities that I would trust with my life, and at least a few Americans that I would not let touch me with a stethoscope, much less provide medical care. Individuals aren't the problem. It is a broken SYSTEM that is the problem.
It is bad HOSPITALS that Americans don't want to work at that are the root cause of this problem, and need to be fixed. Unfortunately for foreign nurses, that can probably not be addressed until we turn back to tide of foreign labor and force hospitals to correct these problems (or close) so that they can recruit and retain staff. I don't personally see this happening, because we're getting close to the point where you don't "get the government you deserve," but instead you "get the government you pay for," and our pockets aren't as deep.
I'm not angry at foreign nurses--they're trying to do the same thing we all are, work a job, have a better life, hopefully make a decent wage. But they're being put in the middle of a large problem, and instead of identifying the problem and working to correct it (from within and without,) the "anger" of the problem is being focused on them.
Apr 29, '09Occupation: Freelancing Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele ; Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 5,292; Likes: 7,635The same market forces that send people to Walmart to buy items made in Chinese factories are the ones that drive the importation of cheaper, more desperate workers from abroad.
The American consumer wants lots of consumer goods at a low cost. The competitive marketplace favors businesses that can squeeze more out for less. Businesses that employ American citizens at a living wage, providing benefits, are at a disadvantage in the real world.
Apr 29, '09Occupation: former Flight Attendant From: US ; Joined: Apr '09; Posts: 20; Likes: 13ASTN could not have said it better. If the healthcare industry in this country is saddled with growing problems, well then consider the importation of foreign nurses an added one. Outsourcing jobs will now become "insourcing", all because of the mighty buck. Cheapening this profession will sink this industry to levels never before seen. I'm glad that forums such as these serve the purpose of providing much needed info. so that those that want to enter this profession can get educated of what lies ahead of them and make informed decisions. I have serious doubts of pursuing this career. I really do. Graduating and not being able to find a job for a year or more?? What's going on here??!!:angryfire
Apr 29, '09Specialty: 30 year(s) of experience in Education ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '08; Posts: 21; Likes: 12Well, everyone's fears MAY be misguided if all I have been reading today come to fruition.
This swine flu may give nurses more jobs than they really WANT.
Apr 29, '09Occupation: RN Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 2,030; Likes: 5,933Quote from SkySoldierI actually called Swedish Medical Center this morning after I read your letter. I asked if they were hiring nurses and she said yes. I then asked if there was any truth to the rumor that they were bringing in nurses from the Philipines. She admitted that they are, but that it would take a couple of years to get them here. This is right from the horses mouth.Thank you for bringing this topic up. I am extremely frustrated with the situation I am in right now. I am a new graduate and I can't find a job anywhere. No one in the class before me or my class has been able to find a job. There are tons of RN slots out there but they won't hire new grads. Every hospital in the Seattle area has cancelled its residency programs which was the new grads only way to gain employment to become experienced. Every day I see something on the news about how the economy is so bad and the best career field to go into is nursing. I thought for sure, over the past two years of school I would have a job anywhere, especially with 6 years of military service as a medic. Nope. Swedish, one of the largest employers in the area is going to the Philipines to bring in nurses. I can save them a plane ticket if they would just give me chance. Why are new grads so horrible that they would rather hold positions open for months on end instead of putting some time and energy into a new grad? I have even looked at all of the correction facilities in the area. I have applied everywhere for any type of nursing position created and nothing. I wish I knew what the media was talking about or they could tell me where these nursing jobs are at. Sorry for the rant, but I am frustrated and you hit the nail on the head.
I would go to the paper and tell them the truth about what is going on in Seattle, and all over the country. Make alot of noise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!!
Get a large group of new grads together, go to a very public place, contact the Seattle PI, and other papers in the area, and don't forget the news. Have your ducks in a row, papers with statistics, all the new grads who cannot find jobs, and now they are going to hire foreign nurses. Have balloons to give to the kids, take blood pressurs, have flyers, etc to give to the public, you know what I mean.
The problem with nurses is that we are not taught how to make a stink, make noise, and get what we want. Nurses are taught in nursing school to be good little girls and boys, and "just be thankful that we accepted you into this school, because we had 50 applicants for each of your seats". We are not taught how to market ourselves, not taught what our rights are, I could go on.
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Apr 29, '09Specialty: ICU/Critical Care ; Joined: Feb '08; Posts: 4,914; Likes: 7,697They will spend all that money to bring RNs from the Phillipines but they won't hire U.S. educated RNs? Something is seriously wrong with that picture. I agree with Linda, make a stink.
Apr 29, '09Joined: Apr '09; Posts: 44; Likes: 128At the risk of sounding like a attention wh0re, I mentioned this very thing in my threads of Dont Be Angry.
I watched, first hand as my previous career (IT) was shredded with a buzzsaw.
I watched very talented people, unemployed / underemployed right here in the third largest city in America.
You nurses are TOO nice
You nurses are TOO caring.
You better take heed, not just to what I say, but to what others are saying as well.
Based on my "landscape" view, nurse / patient ratios aren't looking real positive in many places, right? When the economy improves (and it will improve), the number-crunching bean counters will point to their stats and say:
"Hey we've proven it can be done!"
And those original ratios will NEVER return.
I used to be a union member, and I saw first hand the damage unions can do to both employers and their own membership. But Nurses' failure to show any glimmer of cohesion will lead to a race to the bottom. That's why I abandoned my goal of becoming a Nurse.
Devious, manipulative people eventually show their true intent. Most Nurses are genuinely KIND.
And many people think:
KIND = WEAK
I'm thinking of another Dont Be Angry posting...you know what? Every one of you who busts their ass everyday should be P****ED.
In another way, I'm incredibly sad. I KNOW what it's like to make sacrifices and work SO FRIGGING HARD, I couldn't see straight at the end of the day.
I'm sorry guys...I really am. I'm so afraid for all of you.
I'm afraid that in ten years, Nursing won't be a viable career. It'll just be a job.
And not a very good job, either.
Apr 29, '09Occupation: Freelancing Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele ; Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 5,292; Likes: 7,635You ought to contact Dave Ross from KIRO radio. He has a great show and is a very balanced and insightful talk show host.
Apr 29, '09Joined: Dec '06; Posts: 2,135; Likes: 3,205Time for all of us to start writing FOX with what is really going on and following that up with letters to our state Senators, etc.
There are tons of nurses who won't put up with deplorable conditions in bedside nursing. There are tons of new grads that many don't see willing to take on. There is a lack of instructors because the pay is miserable. They want foreign nurses because they are CHEAPER LABOR. That's what this is all about.
Apr 29, '09Joined: Mar '08; Posts: 3,791; Likes: 3,438Something many of you seem to be missing is that it's not a matter of "jobs for Americans first" when hospitals are hiring foreign nurses rather than new grads. It's a matter of experience v no experience.
Experienced foreign grad does not equal new grad USC.
It's not about americans first - it's about PATIENTS FIRST, including having the required skill mix. I'd rather have some experienced foreign nurse hired than a whole ward full of new grad americans - how will they learn?