Family of victim that died on psych floor in Kings County Hospital - page 4

Remember the story about the woman who Kings County Hospital employees let die on the floor in a psych ward?? Here's the story about the what the jury awarded the family of the victim:... Read More

  1. by   nursemarion
    Quote from heron
    OT alert ... I remember that case. It bothers me that it is constantly being used to illustrate frivolous medical claims.
    The lady sustained third degree burns and needed major skin grafting. Not so frivolous, I think.
    Please. The woman put boiling hot coffee between her legs! It was completely her own fault and not the fault of McDonalds. Therefore it is indeed frivolous. What happened to taking responsibility for our own actions? If the drive thru attendant had dumped it on her then I could see, but she stuck the cup between her own legs! Not into a cup holder, not on the floor, between her legs! She at that moment decided that she would take the chance of being burned to avoid the inconvenience of finding a "safe" place to put the coffee. Next time, ask for a cup holder!
  2. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from tnnurse
    you know...i dont know how to answer that. i mean....how can you put a value on a life? if i were asked the question " what amount of money would you trade for your mother, your spouse, your child?"...well.....the answer would be the mint doesnt print that much money...bc they are invaluable....irreplaceable beings ...each one of them make my life worth living.
    i do realize that society places a value on all these type patients lives...but honestlly now ....how much would you trade for all 4 of your limbs? how much would you trade if your ability to walk were taken away by nsg negligence? or your ability to breathe? those are things in your life that impact everything...affects every aspect of your life. so...i cant imagine putting a dollar amt on something that impacts your life like that......mustless a life.
    i agree... the mint doesn't print enough money to be worth my child or my arms or my life. that's not the issue, though.

    my initial response was to comments like yours expressing insult at a settlement of "only" 2 million dollars or to the others who expressed outrage.

    if the family is going to seek a financial award for something for the loss of something that's inherently invaluable then we must have a standard means of determining what is a fair award granted that what's lost can never be restored whether the award is $100,000 or $100,000,000 and that we all pay to one degree or another for such settlements.

    in a court (or settlement negotiations) there is simply no choice but to apply some sort of reason and rationale to assign a dollar value to that lost life. so, while 50-year-old life is no less worthy than a 12-year-old life, it does seem reasonable that an award for the child lost due to negligence would be higher than that of an adult with no dependent children. otherwise there should be a set, fixed figure.
  3. by   morte
    Quote from cxg174
    Please. The woman put boiling hot coffee between her legs! It was completely her own fault and not the fault of McDonalds. Therefore it is indeed frivolous. What happened to taking responsibility for our own actions? If the drive thru attendant had dumped it on her then I could see, but she stuck the cup between her own legs! Not into a cup holder, not on the floor, between her legs! She at that moment decided that she would take the chance of being burned to avoid the inconvenience of finding a "safe" place to put the coffee. Next time, ask for a cup holder!
    precisely, i would have been embarrassed to admit i had done it, never mind sue them for it!
  4. by   Keysnurse2008
    Quote from ♪♫ in my ♥
    i agree... the mint doesn't print enough money to be worth my child or my arms or my life. that's not the issue, though.

    my initial response was to comments like yours expressing insult at a settlement of "only" 2 million dollars or to the others who expressed outrage.

    if the family is going to seek a financial award for something for the loss of something that's inherently invaluable then we must have a standard means of determining what is a fair award granted that what's lost can never be restored whether the award is $100,000 or $100,000,000 and that we all pay to one degree or another for such settlements.

    in a court (or settlement negotiations) there is simply no choice but to apply some sort of reason and rationale to assign a dollar value to that lost life. so, while 50-year-old life is no less worthy than a 12-year-old life, it does seem reasonable that an award for the child lost due to negligence would be higher than that of an adult with no dependent children. otherwise there should be a set, fixed figure.
    i do know that they look at alot of things. they have actuaries involved that look at several things, the age of that person, the projected life expectancy if the sentinel event had not happened, if they are still alive i have been told that they look at the costs of medical care and expenses and multiply that times the number of years "projected" that they will live with the new disabilities. the additional medical expenses, and yes they get some for pain and sufferng. the family they leave behind, the age of the children if it is a parent,,....etc etc etc ....alot of things go into calculating a settlement i am told . alot of that i have been told is the projected life span , age of the pt and loss of income and costs of medical care for the injury- if they are still alive. but then you add on the atty fees and costs , which most atty's advertise 33% and the avg costs of a medical malpractice plantiff case is 50-100k then that leaves around 50% of any settlement making it actually to the patient or family . like the 2 million this family got...they didnt reallly get that much. what they got was probably around 1.2 million. that is 200k per child....and who knows what that is taxed at. but...i guess the deeper core problem i have with all of this is...accountability. where is it at? i would love to say that everyone practices competently...and that their negligence never costs a patient their life.....but it does. and sometimes...it seems like people make so many many excuses for them.....but at the end of the day....that life that was lost or severely impacted was someones mother , brother, father, sister or child. they were someone ...to somebody.i read about a case recently where a nurse inadvertently spiked a large heparin drip and infused it as a ivpb antibiotic....250ml of heparin infused in 1 hr. the patient was in his mid 30's -late 30's,...ended up with an intracranial bleed and is severely cognitively impaired. he was in the hospital for something like a knee replacement. 3 young kids......finally got him off a vent, and the family took him home. i am sure the families life now revolves around arranging home care , medications, adl care etc etc...instead of what their life would have been. in that situation ...how much is enough? the negligence of that nurse has destroyed that family...so being accountable ...goes a long way. 2 million might be enough if it were accompanied by a honest apology , accountability...and the truth. but would 2 million be enough without that accountability? to me - no...it wouldnt. accountability goes a long way...someone saying " i am so sorry...i realize how my actions impacted your life...i understand....i think about what has happened to you and your family and i will never let that happen again. i know how my actions impacted your life and i am so sorry- - - that...that is worth alot,....accountablity- not excuses. i hope you understand what i am saying...
  5. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from tnnurse
    i hope you understand what i am saying...
    i think i do... i completely understand and agree regarding remorse and a sincere apology and acknowledgment of what happened.

    i had the misfortune of having my child go without surgery for a very serious problem for over a year due to the incompetence of a radiologist and a pediatrician who didn't know when to push back. things turned out mostly ok but it appears that there has been some detrimental effect, though nothing that a lawyer would take. the pediatrician was sincerely contrite and apologetic - she really felt badly and she showed it. she's also gone out of her way to be helpful in the meantime. even if i could sue her, i wouldn't... because i don't expect her to be perfect, i just expect her to do her honest best and to treat my child like a real human being... she does and she does and i continue to pay extra for insurance so that i can stay with this pediatrician. i would be willing to file a punitive suit against the radiologist because of his lack of response...

    that apology - standing at my kid's bedside after radical surgery not knowing what was going to happen - was huge.
  6. by   Keysnurse2008
    Quote from ♪♫ in my ♥
    i think i do... i completely understand and agree regarding remorse and a sincere apology and acknowledgment of what happened.

    i had the misfortune of having my child go without surgery for a very serious problem for over a year due to the incompetence of a radiologist and a pediatrician who didn't know when to push back. things turned out mostly ok but it appears that there has been some detrimental effect, though nothing that a lawyer would take. the pediatrician was sincerely contrite and apologetic - she really felt badly and she showed it. she's also gone out of her way to be helpful in the meantime. even if i could sue her, i wouldn't... because i don't expect her to be perfect, i just expect her to do her honest best and to treat my child like a real human being... she does and she does and i continue to pay extra for insurance so that i can stay with this pediatrician. i would be willing to file a punitive suit against the radiologist because of his lack of response...

    that apology - standing at my kid's bedside after radical surgery not knowing what was going to happen - was huge.
    so you definitely do understand what i am saying. it makes me angry when people make excuses when a sentinel event happens and there was a major violation of standard of care. because it seems.....it just seems like everyone wants to dismiss every malpractice case as "frivilous" and people dont look at the impact on the families left behind or the condition the patient is left permanently with. i hear excuse after excuse....like "well they probably would have died anyway".....it makes me just want to scream "reaaaaalllllyyyy? well we will never know will we". i have seen both sides of this .....where excuses were made and also where an honest apology was given. accountability gives the family something they need .....it gives them back trust in healthcare members ( doctors and nurses)....it lets them see that you undertsand they are a person and that your inactions and actions have impacted a life..a family. when no apology is given, and no accountability is taken it destroys a persons ability to truly trust healthcare members. take your child as a example.....if as a result of what happened to your child he / she had been left with permanent life changing injuries that impacted everything in you rfamilies life.....a brain injury. and you filed legal action against the radiologist and the pediatrician. you were offered a 750k settlement from each of the docs. would the 750 k be enough from the pediactrician....or would it be enough from the radiologist? the radiologist has apologized and the pediatrician has not. then i bet you are like me......and the 750 k would not be enough from that pediatrician....bc there was no accountability....no one saying " i know by my inactions your child's life has been impacted forever". then .....750k is not enough. in this case of kings county...no one took accountability ....and i think that.....that....is what makes alot of us angry.
  7. by   nursemarion
    If I am in error I generally apologize, but an apology can be taken as admission of guilt. It has to be done carefully. I always believe that caring, explaining, and understanding usually help people to understand what has happened without them becoming angry. ( I am so sorry this happened to your loved one. We had no idea that she had a blood clot or we would have transferred her out immediately, etc.) Angry people sue. Again, we don't know so much about what occurred. I am not angry about this because I have too many unanswered questions. I have been in health care too long to know how bad a work environment can be and how thinly spread people can be. Maybe she fell below the visibility of the camera. Maybe the people in the room ignored her because she had been acting bizarre beforehand. You just can't judge without more facts.
  8. by   Keysnurse2008
    Quote from cxg174
    if i am in error i generally apologize, but an apology can be taken as admission of guilt. it has to be done carefully. i always believe that caring, explaining, and understanding usually help people to understand what has happened without them becoming angry. ( i am so sorry this happened to your loved one. we had no idea that she had a blood clot or we would have transferred her out immediately, etc.) angry people sue. again, we don't know so much about what occurred. i am not angry about this because i have too many unanswered questions. i have been in health care too long to know how bad a work environment can be and how thinly spread people can be. maybe she fell below the visibility of the camera. maybe the people in the room ignored her because she had been acting bizarre beforehand. you just can't judge without more facts.
    she may have fallen below the visibilty of the camera, but she was in full view of the security officers. then she was in full view of the environmental service person who mopped around her as she laid in the floor. anothe rperson in the er actually called 911 trying to get help. i watched the full video on nancy grace the other night. the staffing....well we have all worked short staffed at some point or another, but short or not....if someone had told me a patient was in the floor....i would have gone and evaluated. i used to work in an acute psych hospital. i had patients act bizarre, psychotic, strange and a few wounld fake seizures and fake fainting. i still got up and checked on every single one of them each time they faked unconsciousness,...whether i was working short or not. in the nancy grace interview she said that 2 of the er nurses were told on 2 seperate occassions by staff and by other pts; that the pt was in the floor. then the er nurses were notified by 911 of the call. so....while there are occassions that events can be blamed on other circumstances to an extent......this isnt one of them. an apology .....immediate...with an explanation of what truly occurred would resolve alot. families really are not stupid.......they know when daddy used to talk and now he doesnt.......and when daddy used to be able to walk and now he cant....they eventually put 2 and 2 together....and when reasonable explanations arent given...it gives rise to mistrust....bc....it is a lie by omisssion. so being accountable, forthright...immediately is a good thing.
  9. by   nursemarion
    Wish we could see the video you saw because the other one doesn't show any of that. It sounds bizarre. It is just ard to believe that anyone would knowingly ignore her on the floor unless they could not see here or were in the middle of something that they could not leave. It just seems so far-fetched. But the truth will come out, and it sounds like some of it is, though it may be biased by the media. We have to let the legal system do its work.
  10. by   karleon
    this is horrible, a woman died in fornt of people inside a hospital is totally out of whack. Dont get me wrong i know the patient is in the psych ward but whats the use of the surveillance camera if they dont watch their patients. I saw a lot of nurses came in and check out the body and no even rushed to try to revive the woman. this is so wrong.
  11. by   Keysnurse2008
    Quote from cxg174
    wish we could see the video you saw because the other one doesn't show any of that. it sounds bizarre. it is just ard to believe that anyone would knowingly ignore her on the floor unless they could not see here or were in the middle of something that they could not leave. it just seems so far-fetched. but the truth will come out, and it sounds like some of it is, though it may be biased by the media. we have to let the legal system do its work.

    try this link,....then scroll down to the second video. http://www.nypost.com/seven/07012008...ath_117964.htm
    it shows a staff member in a long white coat . then this one shows the sec officer ignoring her also. it is still not the full video i got to see, but alot more than what was in the initial clip with the op. hope this helps

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/07012008...ath_117964.htm
  12. by   nursemarion
    It definitely helps to see more of what happened. Thanks. They cut too much out in the other video. One can surmise that the people thought she was just acting inappropriately by lying on the floor, but this does not excuse them from getting her up off the floor. It definitely shows an uncaring, neglectful picture. I wonder if he spoke to her at all? She was moving around a lot, so we know she was not dead right away. I am sure the statements of the various staff members will show their side of it, but everyone in the room, and everyone who saw her and did nothing shares the guilt.

    It reminds me of an incident I had once. I was a home health nurse in a poor, low income area filled with government housing projects, gangs and violence. One day I went to see a patient and there was this man lying on the sidewalk outside the building while everyone went about their business ignoring him. It was the middle of summer and pretty warm, and I asked if he was ok. Well, he had broken his hip and just lay there unable to move. Everyone around thought he was drunk and did not want to get involved, so they ignored him. They had to go off the sidewalk and into the grass to walk around him!

    Another time my friend and coworker spotted a man in the parking lot dead in his car. People apparently thought he was sleeping it off! No one bothered to check on him. This is our society.
  13. by   Keysnurse2008
    Quote from cxg174
    it definitely helps to see more of what happened. thanks. they cut too much out in the other video. one can surmise that the people thought she was just acting inappropriately by lying on the floor, but this does not excuse them from getting her up off the floor. it definitely shows an uncaring, neglectful picture. i wonder if he spoke to her at all? she was moving around a lot, so we know she was not dead right away. i am sure the statements of the various staff members will show their side of it, but everyone in the room, and everyone who saw her and did nothing shares the guilt.

    it reminds me of an incident i had once. i was a home health nurse in a poor, low income area filled with government housing projects, gangs and violence. one day i went to see a patient and there was this man lying on the sidewalk outside the building while everyone went about their business ignoring him. it was the middle of summer and pretty warm, and i asked if he was ok. well, he had broken his hip and just lay there unable to move. everyone around thought he was drunk and did not want to get involved, so they ignored him. they had to go off the sidewalk and into the grass to walk around him!

    another time my friend and coworker spotted a man in the parking lot dead in his car. people apparently thought he was sleeping it off! no one bothered to check on him. this is our society.
    the entire video shows the lady actually " appeared to seize"and then stop all movement, and i think that was one of the allegations. one of the male family members of another patient actually called 911 trying to get her an ambulance to another hospital. it ...is just really disheartening....that this came to the lady's death, with no attempt at medical intervention. it is one thing if this happened in a park somewhere where laypeople would think she was intoxicated, but this was in a medical facility.....and it is one of those events that shows a complete disregard for the safety and welfare of a patient. i agree with you...it is disheartening that our society has evolved to this. but...it is one thing if it is a layperson ignoring a patient...and quite another if its a healthcare team member.

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