Children without health insurance lose out on learning at school - page 2
Growing numbers of uninsured children have made it harder for educators to focus on classroom achievement without first addressing the medical needs of their students who lack health insurance or... Read More
Nov 23, '07Joined: Nov '06; Posts: 20,715; Likes: 23,951Quote from CRNA2007But had his father been in the picture, would that have made a difference? Maybe. But probably if he'd had more income he'd have qualified for even less. And, if he'd had insurance, do you think possibly that he might have been able to have his surgery before he started school and wouldn't have had the school issues he had?You describe this child of a migrant farm worker with no father in the picture and somehow come to the conclusion that it is the lack of insurance that caused this when I see a social structure in this country that constantly rewards failure and punishes achievment.
I'm not saying that there weren't other things in play. But to add the lack of access to care on top of all the other is like adding insult to injury.
And, while we're on the subject, I did indeed give from my own personal funds. Not to the fed gov't, but to this child and his family. Believe me, I personally had issues with things that this child's mother did or did not do. She had health issues of her own that we did NOT help her with because she didn't want the help. But to just sit by while a child's health is that seriously in jeopardy? Nope. Not gonna do it.Last edit by ElvishDNP on Nov 23, '07
Nov 23, '07Occupation: RN and blogger extraordinaire Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych ; From: OR, US ; Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 26,991; Likes: 44,860Quote from CRNA2007If you had read between the lines, you would have caught the sarcasm. I KNOW the school district isn't "broke"........far from it. It's just that they so often choose to spend the money on things that do not directly benefit students, and it angers me. And believe me, I pay enough taxes to have earned the right to complain.:angryfireSchool districts are from from broke. !/2 of most state budgets got to the public uneducation in the U.S. Find out how much money is actually being spent in the classroom and you will see that the money is being wasted with non education expenditurers.
It seems to me that in your disgust for ANYTHING that could possibly benefit people you consider "undeserving", you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that this country has problems that are very real and very critical. I'm rather conservative politically, but even I can see that lack of access to health care---regardless of whose "fault" it is---is detrimental to our childrens' ability to learn. That is a fact, and ignoring it won't make it go away.
And no, I don't believe government is the answer. I don't know what the answer is. I simply know that a child who is hungry and/or sick cannot learn as well as a child who is well-fed and healthy.
Nov 24, '07Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 1,394; Likes: 217Quote from mjlrn97I'm sure everyone is very busy but I'm wondering if you or someone else could organize some volunteer hours by retired nurses or nurses who are mothers of present students. It might cover a few hours each week. Ridiculous about the inhaler, although I guess it's an insurance thing - the wrong kid gets the inhaler and has trouble with it and there's a lawsuit against the school. I once asked our school nurse to check my son's foot, which had 2 broken toes. She did not go to him, she had him walk to her. I was ticked off. Making him walk extra. Stupid. NP thing is good.The district staffs this way because they're always "broke". They train secretaries to administer meds and teachers to do CPR, then call it good. (A child with special medical needs has to have his/her own private-duty nurse.) YET---they will not allow an asthmatic 16-year-old to carry his albuterol inhaler with him, but force him to go to the office when he's dyspneic so it can be administered by someone with less than half the knowledge of his disease that he has. It makes my blood boil even to think of it; to say the least, I'm far from confident in this school, but it's the better of the two high schools in this town and there is no alternative. I don't know what other parents who have no insurance do, or whose kids have more serious problems...........I guess they just drop back and punt, because the chances of the district nurse being in any given building on any given school day are slim and none.
Also, just a thought about nurses and schools - if schools weren't so busy arranging abortions, reporting "abuse", and handing out clean needles and condoms without parents' permission, maybe the nurses would have more time for general care.
As for schools and health care in general - it is not the job of the state or fed gov to educate children. It is the parents' job, be it at home or in a religious or other private school of their choice. I know a lot of people here probably don't realize that. But our fed gov is supposed to provide for the common protection, promote commerce, and negotiate with foreign powers. Our gov has grown far, far too big. If we would live by the Constitution, we'd all be better off. Charities and individuals who are able ought to be taking up the slack to help their neighbors - and they ought not to be funded by government monies because gov then wants to control and regulate the charities.
i hope the dentist had the parents' permission to do the root canal.
Nov 24, '07Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 1,394; Likes: 217Another thing about schools - kids are in them for too many years and they are doing too many unnecessary things while there. Field trips, band, painting, foreign language - very nice. But not necessary. I say we need to get back to the 3 R's and get these kids the skill and knowledge to support themselves and get them out working. Why must we pay for every child to have a Thanksgiving festival at school, a Christmas play, recess, debate club, gym class, and so forth?
Why do i have to contribute my taxes to a school district that spends hundreds of thousands on school buses - and the buses are NEVER, EVER more than half full, if that. The Superintendent says the kids have no coats or boots so they need buses. Well, let's help them get winter wear. We walked to and from school, before there were backpacks, and it was tons colder then, what with all the present global warming.
Then, those kids are coming to sell me candy and stuff I don't need - to raise more money for their schools! What????!!!????
They do not need to go to the art museum, the zoo, the fire house. They need to learn to read, write, do basic math, and go out and get to work.
Call me Dinosaur. :spin:
Nov 25, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316Trudy,
The drafters of state constitutions viewed Education as a state responsibility. The original point of this thread was how poor health adversely affects the ability of children to learn.
For constitutional links see:
Duty of legislature to establish and maintain public school system; apportionment of public school fund; separate schools for white and colored children.
The legislature shall establish, organize, and maintain a liberal system of public schools throughout the state for the benefit of the children thereof between the ages of seven and twenty-one years. The public school fund shall be apportioned to the several counties in proportion to the number of school children of school age therein, and shall be so apportioned to the schools in the districts or townships in the counties as to provide, as nearly as practicable, school terms of equal duration in such school districts or townships.
1. Public Education
The legislature shall by general law establish and maintain a system of public schools open to all children of the State, and may provide for other public educational institutions. Schools and institutions so established shall be free from sectarian control.
While it is certainly a subject of debate about the role of schools and their curriculum of instruction. It is very clear from my survey of state constitutions that the schools are a constitutional responsibility to be maintained in furtherance of the common good. To bring this back to the central point. It is very clear that health problems get in the way of turning out kids who are able to meet the demands of the new economy.
Nov 25, '07Occupation: Staff nurse From: US ; Joined: Jul '05; Posts: 1,335; Likes: 817I don't have any fancy answers but it seems to me that much of the problem is people do not use their money and resources wisely. If you don't have money for insurance how come you have it for your new from-the-store clothes, eating out almost every night, nail care and facials, hair care, movies, concerts, games, unlimited driving around when gas is $3 ?
Why is the thrift shop or garage sale stuff beneath you? Why don't you have cereal and milk, toast and some fruit at home instead of driving thru McDonalds' or BK for breakfast, your kids don't know what a toaster is? How come your nails and hair are perfect or you have all the new grown-up toys the guys have but your little kids have no warm coat or boots for winter ("we're going to the 'coats for kids' drive for coats like we do every year").
Our teachers are now supposed to make sure the kids have breakfast and adequate clothing for the season, supply much or all of the supplies like pencils, crayons, paper, scissors, notebooks, glue, tape, books, rulers and make sure everyone can see the board. When does he/she have time to teach? Teachers in some districts are the parents...sure intervene where it is necessary but we as a society have to stop enabling people to be irresponsible...
There is a difference between being a helping hand in need and an enabler. Ther are people who need a little help now and then, but it shouldn't be a life-style on how much you can get off the govt. We have to be wise and realistic.
Nov 25, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316When you consider that something like 25% of workers wages fall at 200% or less of the poverty line it is not surprising that families are un or underinsured. 200% of the poverty line is around 42,000/year for a family of four. Health Insurance that is on a par with that of most posters on this site costs between 1000 to 1200 per month. That works out to about 28% of gross income. It is not that these families are being irresponsible it is that adequate coverage is just not affordable out of pocket for these families.
Nov 25, '07Joined: May '07; Posts: 38; Likes: 17If states are responsible for providing education as their distinct constitution demands, then why is there a federal education bureau. We have mandated public schooling in N.C. and I hate the thought of it but it is constitutional which is the rulebook for what the government can do. There is nothing in the federal constitution about school spending, it is the biggest unconstitutional drain hole and the federal education bureau should be done away with. Also, if parents don't worry about their kids health then I'm sorry, there isn't a government in the world who has the right to make everyone else worry about the kids health or education.Last edit by Shaggyb2000 on Nov 25, '07 : Reason: h
Nov 26, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316Quote from Shaggyb2000Actually, Congress has the constitutional authority and responsibility to legislate to promote the general welfare and provide for the common defense. Public health and education measures are within those areas.If states are responsible for providing education as their distinct constitution demands, then why is there a federal education bureau. We have mandated public schooling in N.C. and I hate the thought of it but it is constitutional which is the rulebook for what the government can do. There is nothing in the federal constitution about school spending, it is the biggest unconstitutional drain hole and the federal education bureau should be done away with. Also, if parents don't worry about their kids health then I'm sorry, there isn't a government in the world who has the right to make everyone else worry about the kids health or education.
I honestly don't think that the majority of parents don't worry about their children's health. I do think that financial access to health care gets in the way of obtaining health care for their children. government can't make other people worry about the health of others but the people can make government establish mechanisms to assure that access to health care is available through their elected representatives. I think that this is often accomplished through a shared perception of the need to build a future in service to a common good for the community as a whole.
ADPIE applies to education. Health improves education and education improves health. We need to address both issues to change either of them as separate issues.Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Nov 26, '07
Nov 26, '07Joined: May '07; Posts: 38; Likes: 17No, Viking, Congress does not have the authority or responsibility to force states to provide health care or education. These are the United States, not the United State. If one state wants to collect taxes for the purpose of health care or education, it can. But, if another does not then it also has the right to do so. That was the intentions of the forefathers. Each state acting as experiments of society. If you didn't like what your state was doing you could pick up and leave if change was not possible.
Also, your idea of mechanisms the government establishes might not be my idea, so the best way to promote the common good is for individuals to act in their own best interest. If a parent doesn't think it is in their child's interest to get a certain kind of health care or checkup that you or I think they need, it's not ours or the elected officials business. Do you think punitive action should be brought against a parent who doesn't get the kind of health care you think they deserve?Last edit by Shaggyb2000 on Nov 26, '07
Nov 27, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316Short answer is no. Parents still have the right to refuse treatment even though as health care providers we may know that is a bad decision. We can agree to disagree on the power of Congress to establish a health care system. Establishing minimum standards of EADPT services for kids is a legitimate exercise of congressional power. Congress can establish minimums and the states are quite free to design their own systems to meet those requirements. One of the responsibilities of government is to provide for the common defense. Quite arguably health care falls within that bailiwick. As I said earlier congress does act in response to public concensus to estalish programs and systems that are designed to advance the interest of the common good.
In other words Congress can legislate access to but not require use of health care services.
ADPIE applies to education. Health improves education and education improves health. We need to address both issues to improve either of them as separate issues.Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Nov 27, '07