Baltimore patient left at bus stop middle night 30 degree wearing just hospital gown - page 2

Lack of compassion for troubled patient...University of Maryland Medical Center investigation underway. Karen From CNN Patient left at cold bus stop at night, wearing only a hospital gown... Read More

  1. by   12yrRN
    She did have a bag of chlothing in the video. Probably refused to change.
  2. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Well then she made a poor choice but it was a choice she is entitled to make. Not every poor choice leads to a 302 commitment. If it did all the substance abusers, smokers and obese people would be committed
  3. by   TriciaJ
    It's always easy to huff and puff with righteous indignation, especially when you see a small sliver of the story. In the old days, we could four-point a combative patient till s/he settled a bit and could make safer decisions. But that's all but outlawed. I'm wondering if this wasn't someone who insisted on leaving, refused to get dressed and was at high risk to commit vandalism or assault on her way out the door.

    Mother is now suing? Where was mother previous to this? The patient went to the hospital, not her mother's house. She was not accompanied by her mother. She did not call her mother for a ride home. But a mother turns up after the fact. This is not atypical.
  4. by   Trashpanda RN
    Quote from Ruby Vee
    The video tells another side of the story . . . seems perhaps it isn't as clear cut as the original video made it seem.

    THANK YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Hospitals are ACUTE. CARE. FACILITIES. Not daycares. Not babysitters. Not SNFs. Not ALFs. Not homeless shelters.
  5. by   turtlesRcool
    One of the psych docs in our hospital sometimes uses the phrase "has capacity to make bad decisions" when evaluating certain patients. Sometimes there's a patient who is doing xyz that's not in his best interest or will refuse abc that he really needs for treatment. But unless the patient truly lacks capacity, we can't make the patient comply with the doctor's orders. It can be gut wrenching to watch, but the fact is that we can't help people who don't want to be helped.
  6. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Yep I remember the old days in the ER. The Docs would simply say "don't let this one leave" and we would essentially mug the guy and tie him up until he complied with what we were telling him / her to do. This was a situation that was ripe with opportunities for abuse. Our chief counsel came down and told us in no uncertain terms to knock that off. Personally I was glad he did. The ER is not a jail. If a person has the capacity to make their own decisions they should be allowed to. The acid test usually comes down to whether somebody is actually willing to 302 the patient. Almost always the answer to that is a resounding "NO" so the patient has the right to go about making bad decisions which (no doubt) brought them to the ER to begin with
  7. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from 12yrRN
    I just watched the video. Patient can be seen walking around holding her bag of chlothing. You can see the bag of chlothing again when standing in the bus stop. Clearly disoriented. She should have been admitted to mental health unit.
    I don't know the whole story -- I wasn't there. If you were, I bow to your superior knowledge. But if you weren't, perhaps there is more than one side to the story. The hospital's side, unfortunately, cannot be told due to HIPAA rules.
  8. by   Lil Nel
    The patient's mother came forward after she saw the video on her FB feed.

    From the video, it seems pretty clear that this patient is suffering from some sort of mental illness.

    The hospital is conducting an investigation, and I am sure we read or hear about the findings.

    But please, let's not fool ourselves into thinking that all hospitals and doctors provide superior care. They don't. Some of them provide pretty crappy care.

    I certainly remember the FL who was forcibly removed from a hospital after stating over and over that something was wrong. The hospital had the cops remove her. She died. There was something terribly wrong with her. Here is a link to the story.


    Dash-cam video: Woman lay in Florida hospital parking lot 18 minutes, later died | Miami Herald
  9. by   JKL33
    Quote from Lil Nel
    From the video, it seems pretty clear that this patient is suffering from some sort of mental illness.
    It would seem. Just the same, no one can be too certain/clear about anything or make accurate statements about type or severity of possible mental illness by watching this clip.

    I won't forget the time we were preparing for emergent testing and probable emergent intervention related to an ED patient acutely paralyzed from the waist down.

    There was a scuttlebut about treatment options during the course of care, and the patient ended up walking out. Brisk pace, too.

    The truth is, none of us can say anything about this woman or these circumstances at all, based strictly on the video.

    Quote from Lil Nel

    But please, let's not fool ourselves into thinking that all hospitals and doctors provide superior care. They don't. Some of them provide pretty crappy care.
    Absolutely.

    My concern is that, aside from frank negligence or abuse, it is sucky and unfair to use the mental health situation in this country to talk about how crappy healthcare providers are. We are bound by actual laws related to what can be done with/for those suffering with mental illness, and we likewise can't force anyone else to help the patient or to help us help the patient. [Nutshell].
  10. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from JKL33
    It would seem. Just the same, no one can be too certain/clear about anything or make accurate statements about type or severity of possible mental illness by watching this clip.

    I won't forget the time we were preparing for emergent testing and probable emergent intervention related to an ED patient acutely paralyzed from the waist down.

    There was a scuttlebut about treatment options during the course of care, and the patient ended up walking out. Brisk pace, too.

    The truth is, none of us can say anything about this woman or these circumstances at all, based strictly on the video.



    Absolutely.

    My concern is that, aside from frank negligence or abuse, it is sucky and unfair to use the mental health situation in this country to talk about how crappy healthcare providers are. We are bound by actual laws related to what can be done with/for those suffering with mental illness, and we likewise can't force anyone else to help the patient or to help us help the patient. [Nutshell].
    Who was using the mental health situation in this country to talk about how crappy healthcare providers are?

    I used an example of a patient with an actual PE, who was misdiagnosed and forcibly removed from the facility, and who later died.

    Did you read the link I provided?

    Yes, I understand, as a former psychiatric nurse that there are laws regarding 72-hour holds, etc.

    I was merely pointing out that several on this thread were pretty quick to cast doubt on the patient, her mother and the passerby who took the video without acknowledging that subpar medical care is doled out on a daily basis.

    It's not like patient dumping is unheard of in this country (even though it is illegal).

    I have a story sort of similar to yours. A patient was sent to the med-surge from the ED. She was obese, a smoker, a diabetic and 42 years-old. Her BP upon arrival to the ED was 180/110. She had a headache.

    ED doctor sends her to the floor. She begins to have trouble breathing. Her mother tells me she has complained of left-sided weakness. Her BP remains high. Now she is going into respiratory distress.

    She was flown out to large teaching hospital with suspected stroke.

    Several weeks later, the ED doctor tells me the patient is crazy and faked everything. I told him I read the ED notes before I began the admission process.

    I asked: How did she fake that BP of 180/110 that never came down?

    Honestly, I never knew if the patient faked it, or the MD was trying to save his butt.
  11. by   TriciaJ
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Who was using the mental health situation in this country to talk about how crappy healthcare providers are?

    I used an example of a patient with an actual PE, who was misdiagnosed and forcibly removed from the facility, and who later died.

    Did you read the link I provided?

    Yes, I understand, as a former psychiatric nurse that there are laws regarding 72-hour holds, etc.

    I was merely pointing out that several on this thread were pretty quick to cast doubt on the patient, her mother and the passerby who took the video without acknowledging that subpar medical care is doled out on a daily basis.

    It's not like patient dumping is unheard of in this country (even though it is illegal).

    I have a story sort of similar to yours. A patient was sent to the med-surge from the ED. She was obese, a smoker, a diabetic and 42 years-old. Her BP upon arrival to the ED was 180/110. She had a headache.

    ED doctor sends her to the floor. She begins to have trouble breathing. Her mother tells me she has complained of left-sided weakness. Her BP remains high. Now she is going into respiratory distress.

    She was flown out to large teaching hospital with suspected stroke.

    Several weeks later, the ED doctor tells me the patient is crazy and faked everything. I told him I read the ED notes before I began the admission process.

    I asked: How did she fake that BP of 180/110 that never came down?

    Honestly, I never knew if the patient faked it, or the MD was trying to save his butt.
    Of course there is doubt on the patient; none of us knows anything about her. What is being addressed on this thread is how quick people are to pile on the hospital. We also don't know anything about what happened in the hospital.

    Of course there is sub-par medical care happening in the country. We just shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that that's what happened in this situation. That's the point. We don't know what happened before the video started rolling.
  12. by   JKL33
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Who was using the mental health situation in this country to talk about how crappy healthcare providers are?

    I used an example of a patient with an actual PE, who was misdiagnosed and forcibly removed from the facility, and who later died.

    Did you read the link I provided?
    I was referring to the press this has received. In reviewing your words and mine, I see how my comment could be read to be referring solely to you. I meant for my reply to be conversational and was referring to the uproar in general.

    Yes, as a matter of fact I visited your link and watched the entire video provided and read a couple of other stories about it too. I wasn't ARGUING with your point of view about subpar medical care to begin with (I thought I said that I agreed with you), I was commenting on the fact that society jumps to loud conclusions when something like this happens and it is hard to sit by while they make their declarative assumptions knowing how bad the situation is with EDs and general and mental health care in this country.
    Last edit by JKL33 on Jan 17
  13. by   JKL33
    Quote from TriciaJ
    Of course there is doubt on the patient; none of us knows anything about her. What is being addressed on this thread is how quick people are to pile on the hospital. We also don't know anything about what happened in the hospital.

    Of course there is sub-par medical care happening in the country. We just shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that that's what happened in this situation. That's the point. We don't know what happened before the video started rolling.

    Thank you. I should've read down one more post before replying.

    LilNel, believe it or not as you wish, but my interest in responding to your post had nothing at all to do with disagreeing that patients are not always treated right. I know they aren't. Which is why I said "absolutely."

    The opinions being voiced on this thread are a direct result of assumptions being made based on very small portions of information.

    Much of the public commentary regarding this video naïvely (or perhaps purposely) misses the opportunity to talk about MUCH bigger ED- and mental healthcare-related issues, in favor of vilifying the people or systems caught in the middle.

    It is possible that this patient presented with an extremely concerning medical or psychiatric situation, and even though equipped to handle such situations, for one reason or another, the folks in this ED all convinced each other that the best thing to do was to wheel her out to the bus stop for no particular reason, not even affording her the time/dignity to put her own clothes back on. I personally don't think that's very likely.

    Is it possible that this was a complicated and difficult situation where different (better) decisions could have been made? Yes.

    Is it possible that there is way more to this than what the video is set up to show and there weren't many good alternatives? Yep.

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