91 year old man fatally shoots terminally ill wife - page 6

I'm curious what yall current thoughts on this issue. Considering nursing viewpoints is ever changing and progressing; how do you feel about someone doing this in the sake of love or pity? For me... Read More

  1. by   futurepsychrn
    Quote from Farawyn
    Do I know you? How do you know I'm not in this situation RIGHT now with family? That I haven't been before? With family, friends, patients?

    "Why can't I ever ...?"
    Have I ever claimed to have the answers? I speak for myself. Don't speak for me or make assumptions.
    Who are you?
    I made one statement. I've made a few in this thread. We may very well disagree.
    Slow your roll futurepsychnurse.
    I never said he should go to jail.
    I said what he did was against the law.
    I'm not going on this posting alone. I watch what goes on in AN. I don't know if you're in this situation or not, but if you are, you should have a lot of empathy for this gentleman.
    A common thread in every nursing class, yes every one including nutrition, is that nurses should never judge anyone for their actions or beliefs. I know that and I'm just a student.
    So, i must be a killer too. I provided end of life care for my best friend. He had ESRD and schleroderma. We had talked many, many times about what kind of care he wanted at the end. He wanted nothing. I watched this poor man suffer through dialysis treatments that made him so ill he couldn't get out of bed till the next treatment 2 days later. I steadied him when he was throwing up blood from internal bleeding they couldn't find a cause for. I watched him go from a strong, healthy, independent person to a weak, frail shell of himself. Every time I told him to keep fighting, he said he was, until the last time. The last time he just said "I'm so tired." They called me from the hospital to tell me they would be putting in a feeding tube because he'd been on parenteral nutrition for too long. I went there, took one look at him and refused the feeding tube. When he died, later on that day, I sat in the room for 10 minutes without calling the nurse, because I didn't have power of attorney and knew they would try to resuscitate him.
    So am I a murderer? What I did is technically against the law, but I did what he asked me to do and there wasn't a nurse on that floor that didn't agree with what I did. The Dr. was another story. Should I go to jail?
    That was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, make the decision to stay there and not call anyone to try to save him. It went against every instinct I had, but I did it because that's what he wanted. That's what I mean about different situations and not knowing what went on behind the scenes.
  2. by   Ruas61
    Legal, moral and ethical are not the same.

    End of life is not an easy path for anyone.
  3. by   CBlover
    Quote from futurepsychrn
    As I previously stated, every situation is different and every person is different!
    I'm sorry...well no I'm not...but I don't believe there's ever a "situation" where killing someone by shooting them in the head with a gun is ethical no matter what the case. This thread has long left the original story of a blatant gun shot wound to the head. Believe me, I have a very hard time with where the line is drawn with end of life in ethically challenging situations. I feel sad when I see a 78lb man dying with cancer and miserable and his wife requests a feeding tube when he's so ready to go. His poor dilapidated body in pain and her persistence to continue heroic measures. I see her side too though. We're NOT talking about that here. As I said, there's not ever a situation where shooting someone in the head is an acceptable way to show a loved one you don't want them to suffer anymore.
  4. by   Farawyn
    Quote from futurepsychrn
    I'm not going on this posting alone. I watch what goes on in AN. I don't know if you're in this situation or not, but if you are, you should have a lot of empathy for this gentleman.
    A common thread in every nursing class, yes every one including nutrition, is that nurses should never judge anyone for their actions or beliefs. I know that and I'm just a student.
    So, i must be a killer too. I provided end of life care for my best friend. He had ESRD and schleroderma. We had talked many, many times about what kind of care he wanted at the end. He wanted nothing. I watched this poor man suffer through dialysis treatments that made him so ill he couldn't get out of bed till the next treatment 2 days later. I steadied him when he was throwing up blood from internal bleeding they couldn't find a cause for. I watched him go from a strong, healthy, independent person to a weak, frail shell of himself. Every time I told him to keep fighting, he said he was, until the last time. The last time he just said "I'm so tired." They called me from the hospital to tell me they would be putting in a feeding tube because he'd been on parenteral nutrition for too long. I went there, took one look at him and refused the feeding tube. When he died, later on that day, I sat in the room for 10 minutes without calling the nurse, because I didn't have power of attorney and knew they would try to resuscitate him.
    So am I a murderer? What I did is technically against the law, but I did what he asked me to do and there wasn't a nurse on that floor that didn't agree with what I did. The Dr. was another story. Should I go to jail?
    That was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, make the decision to stay there and not call anyone to try to save him. It went against every instinct I had, but I did it because that's what he wanted. That's what I mean about different situations and not knowing what went on behind the scenes.
    What "goes on at AN"?

    You tell me not to judge, and in your next virtual breath you tell me I "should" have empathy for this gentleman, the one discussed in the OP.

    Why do you care what I think? I disagree with you. You disagree with me.
    And you don't have to know what goes on behind my scenes. My behind the scenes stories will not be told to justify my position on this man.

    I'm truly sorry for your loss. If you feel you did the right thing by your friend, who apparently didn't have a HCP, living will or DNR, then that's between you and you. I was not there. I hope you both have peace.
    However, don't put that on me. Look up "projection".

    (Wait, here it is: Psychological projection, also known as blame shifting, is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.)

    You are the one who said, every person and every situation is different. Right in that post up there. I agree.

    I've maintained the laws have to change. I've never said different. As our population ages, there will have to be another way. What we have for end of life sucks, pure and simple.

    Pulling a loaded gun and shooting his wife in the hospital was not the answer, not legally, and not IMO.

    Did your friend have a HCP, Living Will and DNR? I'm guessing not.
    Why not?
  5. by   futurepsychrn
    Quote from Farawyn
    What "goes on at AN"?

    You tell me not to judge, and in your next virtual breath you tell me I "should" have empathy for this gentleman, the one discussed in the OP.

    Why do you care what I think? I disagree with you. You disagree with me.
    And you don't have to know what goes on behind my scenes. My behind the scenes stories will not be told to justify my position on this man.

    I'm truly sorry for your loss. If you feel you did the right thing by your friend, who apparently didn't have a HCP, living will or DNR, then that's between you and you. I was not there. I hope you both have peace.
    However, don't put that on me. Look up "projection".

    (Wait, here it is: Psychological projection, also known as blame shifting, is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.)

    You are the one who said, every person and every situation is different. Right in that post up there. I agree.

    I've maintained the laws have to change. I've never said different. As our population ages, there will have to be another way. What we have for end of life sucks, pure and simple.

    Pulling a loaded gun and shooting his wife in the hospital was not the answer, not legally, and not IMO.

    Did your friend have a HCP, Living Will and DNR? I'm guessing not.
    Why not?
    No he did not. He was a very independent person, lived for the moment and tried never to depend on anyone for anything. By the time one was needed he was to ill to sign the papers. His wife suffered from schizophrenia and refused to be treated for it. If left to her, it probably would have ended the same way as the scenario we are arguing over. Different people, different situations.
    I'm not in any way judging you. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't however believe that anyone has the right to force their opinion on someone else. I agree to disagree and I in no way expect to change anyone's mind. I just think that before people start judging someone else, they should try to put themselves in that person's place and see if maybe, just maybe, they could perhaps understand what that person was going through.
    And for the record, I fail to see anywhere in these posts that I have been anything but respectful.

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