50,000 visas for foreign nurses! Is this really a good thing for us Americans? - page 10
I just read about these new immigration laws passed in the senate and I'm wondering what the changes will mean for us Americans as far as finding and keeping a job goes. I don't have anything... Read More
May 10, '05Quote from SmilingBluEyesIt's just Kay's sense of humour. I'm sure her quote was meant to be lighthearted. Maybe it's a British thing, I dunno We say the weirdest thingsNO one is telling anyone else off. I just wish this emotional issue could be discussed reasonably without people jumping to take offense at the first thing we can find. There is validity to our concerns about mass-recruiting of nurses from other countries ---that does not mean we "hate foreigners" here in the USA. Please READ THE ENTIRE POST before biting back!
May 10, '05[QUOTE=madwife2002]Quote from fergus51Some things are universal I guess, except it never happened to me in Canada. We almost never used registry, didn't have travellers and didn't float yet the unit was always pretty well staffed. I never thought I'd say I missed Toronto! Oh well, at least I have a bit of a tan down here :chuckle
Hey we have problems when we have no regular staff due to sickness ect and we have agency staff who have never ever stepped foot on our ward in their life. And they are all from UK. They havent a clue, yet they were trained here, speak perfect english and are all qualified nurses. :chuckle
May 10, '05Quote from madwife2002I'll consider myself told off lol :chuckle
I just had to comment couldn't resist. :chuckle
Just trying to keep you in line my sweetness.
May 10, '05Quote from SmilingBluEyesNO one is telling anyone else off. I just wish this emotional issue could be discussed reasonably without people jumping to take offense at the first thing we can find. There is validity to our concerns about mass-recruiting of nurses from other countries ---that does not mean we "hate foreigners" here in the USA. Please READ THE ENTIRE POST before biting back!
Deb, madwife and I have had a couple of friendly PMs a day or so ago, and we're friendly and fine. But I agree with your post here. Most of us are happy for the help, don't hate foreigners, don't blame the foreign nurse for our problems, but yet have some concernss. But let one person say they hate foreign nurses and that seems to invalidate in people's minds the 99% of us who accept the help with concern, but not hate and anger directed towards the individual, if I'm making sense.
May 10, '05Quote from SmilingBluEyesI was only joking, as Tina said my british sense of humour. I do take seriously/sensitively your comments re recruitment from abroad. It's hard to place the correct intonation and stress on the written word.NO one is telling anyone else off. I just wish this emotional issue could be discussed reasonably without people jumping to take offense at the first thing we can find. There is validity to our concerns about mass-recruiting of nurses from other countries ---that does not mean we "hate foreigners" here in the USA. Please READ THE ENTIRE POST before biting back!
My over inflated ego presumed I would be welcomed with open arms, in reality that may well be the case but I understand that the problems with training in US need to be addressed internally rather that externally.
The difference between UK and USA is that here in UK there are not queues of people wanting to train to be nurses where as in US there are queues of people wanting to train but are unable because of lack of place available and funding, and that is awful.
May 10, '05Quote from TweetyWe do agree on this issue TweetyMattsmom, I think we are thinking along the same lines. That these nurses require as much "training" even if they are experienced. So why not focus on expanding nursing schools here, etc. and give the jobs to the Americans lined up in nursing schools.
Fortunately, as a charge nurse I haven't had the same experiences with dangerous care as you. We gave our Filipino nurses so much orientation and training, even required classroom time with the educators, they had excellent assessment skills when done. Although there were a few language problems, mainly in communicating with patients, not with docs or other nurses.
Not all hospitals have orientation programs or education departments.. In my last facility it was sink or swim orientation...after a few days of following another nurse, 'yer on yer own'.
I ran into LOTS of communication problems with foreign nurses! One example out of hundreds I could relate: a patient fresh out of ICU just off Dobutrex for cardiomyopathy heart failure...and the patient nearly coded by the time I as charge nurse intervened...the foreign trained, ESL nurse didn't listen to lung sounds and ignored the patient said 'I feel the same way I did when I came in here'. They didn't GET what the patient was saying...and they don't DO physical asessments 'in their country' (the nurses' own words)
Of course my manager understood my concerns, but said the decision to bring in this latest group of nurses from the Philipines was 'out of her hands'...in her opinion this was 'the future of nursing' and she was not pleased either.
I think the American public would be horrified to hear these stories, and facilities don't want them getting out, no doubt. But as I said, this concern and my own liability in the mix is why I stopped charging, and went back to ICU. I also felt I was part of the problem by helping the facility 'get by'.
In spite of the foreign recruits, which made MY job harder, i continued to fight for safe staffing....furtherexposing the myth that short staffing was a result of 'nurse shortage', it is more about management's plan...they make $$$ short staffing nurses.
l still worry for patient safety greatly..the language and culture issues are sooo important in my experience; new and experienced nurses leave nursing in record numbers. But nobody wants to deal with this.
With this import trend bound to continue, we might be smarter to just focus on mandated ratios, as other posters have wisely pointed out.Last edit by mattsmom81 on May 10, '05
May 10, '05I don't think anyone wants incompetent nurses regardless of where they are from. That's another issue altogether.
May 10, '05Quote from jenspecI think every profession has it back biters. But I don't think this conversation is about back biting. I think it's about security and control. Nurses in the states just do not have control of their profession and therefore, insecurity attaches itself. However, we're looked upon very highly by nurses from other countries as evidenced by people like you who want to come over and share a piece of the pie. It's just that the grass that you're seeing from your side looks greener than it really is in the states. I will write that nurses like me cannot appreciate what you must be going through working as a nurse in the Phillippines. However, I for one wonder what it must be like for your healthcare system to bleed so heavily from a loss of talent and skills. Then to come to another country where there has been no resolution to the bleeding of talent and skills and feel that you have arrived as far as professional nursing is concerned. I think forums like this should help you appreciate that there are more than two sides to everything.I think that as a nurse with only a few years of experience in the profession there is really something wrong with the way nurses work together. Why do nurses bite each others' back? Why can't we see fellow nurses either be a new grad or a foreign nurse with the same level of respect? The other professions like engineering, doctors, teachers and lawyers shows a great respect on each other but nurses. Think about the hard work every single nurses went through just to become licensed. We are all the same We give care and concern to a lot of people but among us there seem to be none. Try to figure it out, give any individual nurse to prove their capability for whatever race or whereever country they came from, and surely they will.
May 10, '05Mattsmom, good post.
The only tale I have to tell is one who let a temp. of 104 slip by, siting "in the Phillipines, we use celsius and I didn't notice". That excuse didn't fly with management at all and there was hell to pay in remedial counseling and teaching.
But, I've ran into more incompetent American nurses than foreign, so go figure.Last edit by Tweety on May 10, '05
May 10, '05Quote from TweetyWe had that happen with one of our Americans, but the other way around :chuckle . Our isolettes read temps in celcius and she couldn't understand why it was alarming when the baby was 38.6C. She just kept hitting the silence button until I walked by and caught her. Most thermometers nowadays can flip back and forth between the two, so you'd think a nurse would use that feature if they need to.
The only tale I have to tell is one who let a temp. of 104 slip by, siting "in the Phillipines, we use celsius and I didn't notice". That excuse didn't fly with management at all and there was hell to pay in remedial counseling and teaching..
May 10, '05All the phillipino nurses who have come here to Mars PA are going to california after their contract is done. Good luck to them, they think that a well staffed LTC facility is bad, wait till they hit the hospitals they dream of. Yes California has mandated a nurse patient ratio but the responsibility has increased too I am sure.
Only one was a really awesome nurse and I gave her an equally awesome reference to attend anesthesia class in california. The rest are mediocre and I am usually glad to see their contract end as they have no motivation.
May 10, '05Quote from TweetyYes, Tweety, it was the University of Virginia is Charlottesville. They had something like 200 applicants from American nurses but said none were "qualified." Then they hired foreign nurses, paying about $18,000 a head for each one. The foreign nurses are "theirs" for a two or three year contract. At the same time, they lowered the per diem pay, and several nurses quit and were in the process of resigning. So what exactly, is going on here? Nursing shortage? Hardly. More like a ploy to cut pay and replace Americans with foreigners who are bound to them by a contract for several years, and who are unlikely to complain about pay, assignments, mandatory overtime, etc.I think they are recruited to hospitals that want them, rather than a certain geographical area, but I'm sure they get to choose where to live based on the job availability. Of concern was the hospital, was it in Virginia(?), that hired foreign workers despite having American applicants, under the guise they wanted experience. I'm sure this isn't a common practice, but if I was a new grad, I'd be a bit wary. Also that there are waiting lists of Americans who want to become nurses is a big concern and should be a priority in addition to the filling the immediate needs.