2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 12
the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More
Dec 2, '05Quote from dvapwrdemoted to what??????? do you mean their license will be yanked???? surely after ten years of experience some idiot has not said that they should be able to do LESS??????Hi everyone,
I believe the hope of the nurses association is to the 2byear RN to replace the LPN... and eventually RN's will be your BSN's. I have heard that New York had in legislation that ADN's have 10ears to get their BSN, ten years if they don't have their BSN they will be demoted. I believe that for every nursing level there is a role .....
Dec 2, '05Quote from deaniebOKAY! I have pretty much had it with this post and I have a few beers in me to fuel my furyAs a former LPN (or should I say always an LPN), now an RN, I know of many LPN's that could perform and had better critical thinking skills than many RN's. I think any hospital that rids themselves of LPN's are doing themselves a major disservice. A PCT has not have the deep seated aseptic technique to perform such activities as insertion of foley's, dressing changes or hanging of, or the giving bolus tube feedings.
LPN's are and should always remain a vital part of the hospital/ health care setting.
Gonna do my best to keep from getting a warning mods
deanieb.....GREAT POST my friend!
I have never been an LPN and I chose to go straight for my RN, ADN route. I work in the ICU as a nurse tech with nothing but other techs and RNs. No LPNs. But I have worked alongside LPNs many many times and they are INVALUABLE in med/surg, LTC, Home Health, and other areas.
Number one, I was taught first and foremost by my instructors to never devalue LPNs or CNAs. They are there to assist the RN in providing care to the patient safely and appropriately because the RN only has two hands and one brain and 12 hours....got me?
I want ONE person who has posted that they don't think LPNs are necessary to stand up and tell me they have had 8 or 9 pts alone and been able to give appropriate care with only a CNA or two to assist without stepping outside the bounds of their certification????
I don't know where you all live but I live in Memphis and we cannot keep our hospitals staffed with enough nurses period: RNs, LPNs, and agency. So if you took our LPNs away that would deplete half our nursing workforce. Do you think that is safe????
Replace them with PCTs and CNAs you say. In this state, they are not allowed to do anything more than empty a bed pan and give a bath/change linens in the hospital. They certainly cannot pass meds which I know you ALL will agree that is the MOST time consuming task besides documentation.
Okay....whooo....said my piece. Off to get another beer. Happy posting!
Dec 3, '05I say follow nursing for the sake of the knowledge or to help people or for any other reason but to secure your future. That is a laugh and a half, I am slowly learning.Quote from asoldierswife05demoted to what??????? do you mean their license will be yanked???? surely after ten years of experience some idiot has not said that they should be able to do LESS??????
Dec 3, '05I hear what you are saying. Right now I am a CNA or tech. I am in shcool to get a nursing degree. It is really sad that we save dollars to spend pennies for our "image" I work right along side my RNs and LPNs this really works. I have seen in our little hospital, that downsizing the staff is not good. Where we use to have a 5:1 pt ratio we as techs now have up to 16 pts on day shift. In our facillity the day shift does all the baths, serves 2 meals/daily and deals with the public. We actually have had techs say I work 3-11 or 11-7 so that I don't have to do all of that. I thought that health care did not allow this kind of action. Yet it has gone on for the last 3 years that I have been at this facillity. This will come back to haunt our administration. Only because in a small community we all know when you sneeze. We do have an excellent housekeeping staff and they are there until 11p and will clean L&D if there. Sometimes though the RNs have to clean up themselves and this is due to the techs are no longer allowed in L&D. Even though we have been educated and are very capable of doing the job. So if the RN has to clean up by themselves then so be it. Good luck to you
Dec 3, '05In the ER that I work at LPN's are a critical part of the nursing team. We have the exact same responsibilities as a RN. Most of us are also ACLS and PALS certified.
Dec 3, '05Quote from TweetyThere is one such school in Cincinnati Ohio, where I live, the waiting list is 5 years! I'll be 56 at that time. Well, the small amount of extra money I would make would not pay for the education! Just not worth it! I'd hate to retire and still have a student loan to finish paying off! By the way, the cost I am told is just about 10K for an ADN.Yikes. I was wondering why we had LPNs in my ADN program that started from the beginning and then a couple that joined us in the 2nd here. This was in NC.
Here in Florida, they have specific programs for LPN to RN that is completely separate, and there is no time requirement, but I think there is a placement test.
Dec 3, '05Quote from LadyLesileI've worked in the southern US for many years, in many states and Ohio is one of the most backwards towards LPNs in this country! And you know what I've learned? The patients down south, even when I was the charge nurse on the tele unit, got better and went home! Now how in the world did that happen with an LPN in charge? As a matter of fact, the only time a pt died on my shift was a night when an RN from the local agency pushed the wrong drug when I was off the unit for a few helping out in the ER (small hospital).I know down south LPN will do a lot more than LPN in Ohio can. never understood that
Dec 4, '05Quote from RN34TXI want to go to Texas, I want to again be the nurse I used to be. Don't get me wrong, I love my job but I really do miss having more flexibility in what is available.It's a scope of practice issue.
Some states, particularly up north in midwestern states, can restrict LPN practice to the point of reducing them to being glorified nursing assistants who can give Tylenol and insert foleys.
Texas has a wide LVN scope of practice and it is only the facility itself that will restrict what an LVN can do here.
Dec 4, '05Quote from NurseWeaverOur admission nurses do the initial assessment. They work pre-op and are all RNs, or for ER admissions, the ER nurse does that initial assessment. This covers vertually all admissions. There is an ocassional straight house admit, and we just assign that admit to an RN. Case closed and it's not a problem!I am a LPN in Indiana, and I am in a LPN to RN bridge program. I know scope of practice differs from state to state. But I work primarily Med-Surg and ICU,and on occasion ER and Mother-baby. I give blood, IVP, start IVs or foleys. I do everything that the RN working with me does. And sometimes the only RN is the charge nurse. I do my own intial assessments with a RN co-signature. The only change in my position, when I am through with the LPN to RN nursing program, will be the intials behind my name and my pay rate.
Dec 4, '05Quote from lizzCa must be a stranger place than I thought on my many visits (never worked or lived there, just visiting) it is like a completely diferent world. In other states, what an LPN does is an LPNs responsibility, not an RNs. No LPN works under an RN. I've heard folks argue that it will always stop at hte RN when the poo hits the fan, but it doesn't (except Ca apparently). An LPN holds a license and she is responsible for her actions, not hte RN.In California, the LVN issue has also been impacted by the ratio law. You can have either one RN assigned to five patients, or one RN and LVN assigned to ten patients under the law.
One hospital in my area has the RN - LVN system because they can save money ... obviously one RN and one LVN is cheaper than having two RN's assigned to ten patients. But, the hospital is now phasing out the LVN's because they can't keep RN's who are leaving to work across town in RN only facilities.
Don't get me wrong ... there are a lot of great LVN's. But, the problem is when you are assigned to an LVN that's not so great. When I worked at this hospital more than one RN was upset when they'd get written up for med errors, etc. that were done by the LVN.
It would probably be a different situation if you could pick your LVN's, and be able to work with the really good ones all the time, but that wasn't the situation at this particular hospital. When you get a bad LVN, it's always on the RN's license and the RN's don't like it.
Also ... I think a lot of RN's just feel less stress when they have only five patients to worry about instead of ten. Even if there's more work involved with the five patients, there's still less responsibility with no LVN and five less patients to worry about.
Dec 4, '05Quote from startrekI have done a little study on this myself. No, I do not have a degree in anything, just a diploma and a license. But, numbers are numbers. My study is small and only covers two local hospitals so you can see it is very limited.The use of Registered Nurses is supported by evidence. There is research supported evidence currently that shows that staff with a higher percentage of RNs have better patient care outcomes.
However, in these two hospitals, one hires only RNs, the other a mix, about 1/2 and 1/2. The all RN hospital discharges folks quicker; what fantastic nursing care they must receive!
They repeatedly discharges folks quicker with fewer "complications" and other issues ever mentioned in the chart.
These same patients are frequently admitted to the other hsopital (the one with the happy mix of LPNs and RNs) when the family and/or pt becomes totally disgusted with the lack of comprehense care.
My impression is the all RN staff is so over worked they focus solely on the reason for admission and too often miss underlying conditions resulting in readmission just days later.
Yes, it's just my own obsevations that I started keeping numbers on about a year ago. This is not scientifically sound, I know this, but aren't theories just observations that need a scientific study to prove fact? I'd love to be able to do just that, but not possible for me at this time. Darn.
Dec 4, '05Quote from asoldierswife05Does this include more information about the facilities it was performed at? does it inclued pt ratio information? Who conducted/funded the research and for what purpose? can you provide a link because I would like to see for my own eyes as I have come across bias research or research that cannot be held credible more times than I can count.
I'd like to see that too, didn't think to ask her to prove it when I answered her post. LOL
Dec 4, '05Quote from DixiediI just read under the Ohio board of nursing defenition section of the law that the LPN works under the direction of the licensed physician or registered nurse. What I gather from this is that the LPN takes assignemnts and direction from the RN but because he or she is licensed then they are indeed reponsible for their actions. The LVN board in California states LVN's are not independent practioners. I say if you take boards and hold a license you should be accountable for your own actions.Ca must be a stranger place than I thought on my many visits (never worked or lived there, just visiting) it is like a completely diferent world. In other states, what an LPN does is an LPNs responsibility, not an RNs. No LPN works under an RN. I've heard folks argue that it will always stop at hte RN when the poo hits the fan, but it doesn't (except Ca apparently). An LPN holds a license and she is responsible for her actions, not hte RN.