SO ANGRY...help!!!

[ac123]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice because I have mixed emotions about this issue. Prior to my graduation, I worked as an aid per diem on an floor for about 3 months. During those 3 months I gave my resume to my nurse manager and said I was interested in working there and to let me know if she had any positions. I also checked in with the nurses I was working with as well as the nurse manager to get any feedback from them about my work. I always got positive responses from them.

Towards the end of those 3 months I was called into the NM's office and she let me know she had a position open. I asked about the position, the hours, start date etc. I asked for a later start date and checked if there were other open shifts with her. She said no but there was a possibility of switching. I realize that I should have jumped at anything she offered, but I did not. I think it was fate because I have a feeling I would be miserable there.

I found out through an email that I did not get the job. She emailed everyone the floor the new grads and their start dates and I was not one of them I called HR and they told me I did not get the job. I called the NM to find out what the deal was. She told me I was not excited enough about the position and others she interviewed were. Understandable. I then asked her if I could still use her as a reference, and she said of course and that I will make a great nurse.

Fast forward to yesterday... I get called in for a 2nd interview at a LTC facility. After checking my references one came up that did not put me in a positive light. They had called the NM and she had told the LTC facility that I had an attitude, felt entitled, and other unfavorable things. The LTC facility thought this odd because why would I give a bad reference? So they called me in to explain myself. I did to the best of my ability and was absolutely shocked when I saw the reference. I had 3 other fabulous references and then this one comes from left field.

I am pretty sure what she did was illegal. Is it even worth my time confronting this woman and possibly tarnishing my reputation at this facility? It's a small world where I live and I definitely do not want to jeopardize my future. Would any of you seek legal action? I am so angry and hurt about this. Thanks everyone for the help.

[cypress101010]

I would just let it go and chalk this up to experience. Focus your efforts on obtaining the new position with a positive attitude and move on. You will be better for it. Good luck.

[Batman24]

It's not illegal but I do think it's unethical on her part. Remove her as a reference in the future. I also always try to get letter of recommendation so I have a hard copy and have some control as well.

It sounds like this place likes you because they wanted your side of the story. As you had a few other positive references they might chalk this women up to being mad you left and having sour grapes.

[Jolie, BSN]

An excerpt from an interesting article:

The qualified privilege doctrine protects the previous employer from liability for defamation if the information is: (1) given to a person who has a legitimate business interest in the information, such as a prospective employer, (2) conveyed in an appropriate manner and circumstance, (3) appropriate in its scope, meaning it is job related and directly responsive to the inquiry, (4) given without malice or intent to harm, and (5) reasonably investigated or relied upon for its truthfulness, even if it is ultimately proven to be untrue or excessively broad in nature

In another case, statements made by a former supervisor to an employment agency were not true and were defamatory. (7) Nevertheless, the court found in favor of the previous employer under the qualified privilege doctrine since the statements were not motivated by malice. The opinion stated that the relevant work history of the employee established the necessary common interest between the supervisor and the employment agency, and also indicated the supervisor had a responsibility to give pertinent information. The court further stated that part of the rationale for the application of the qualified privilege is the protection of the interests of the prospective employer.

Some states are weighing in with new laws in this area. In California, Governor Gray Davis in 2002 signed legislation (AB 1068 and AB 2868) that specifies, in part, that you can't be held liable for defamation if you told a prospective employer whether you would rehire a former employee--as long as your reply was without malice.

The qualified privilege doctrine will not protect the employer if the statements made fall outside its stated bounds. For example, a derogatory disclosure at a social event, as opposed to within the context of a legitimate business inquiry, would not be appropriate, and the employer would likely lose the protection of the privilege. A former employer might also be liable if he or she relays negative information to a prospective employer that is unrelated to job duties.

Full article: Is there a duty to disclose in employment references? (Honesty is the Best Policy).

By Stokes, Pamela P.

Publication: Business Forum

Date: Thursday, June 22 2000

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/laws-government-regulations-employment/722564-1.html

[reigh]

It's not illegal any reference can say just about anything because you gave the future employer permission to get their opinion. It is illegal if they are just verifying emploment. If you could prove soem exact "slander" which would have to be un true statments. I would count yourself lucky in one way you know which references you can count on in the future. I am always uncertain if certain desperate facility references slander me. Some places that really don't work out one I know of that I worked for as a CNA for only a couple of mounths was closed shortly after I left for claiming payment for dead children and the administrator was also found to be an alcoholic. I don't even put them on my resume for work expirience.

[NC Girl BSN]

That sucks that she did you like that! She should have just said for you not to use her as a reference. I guess you live and learn. Good Luck in the future!

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

having been a nurse manager myself i have to say that your nurse manager did a very foolish thing by actually writing a letter of reference about you. first of all, if she has documented proof of the things she put in her letter then you have no defense to it. secondly, you need to stop using her as a reference. third, at most places that i worked we managers had strict orders not to give any kind of references. our facilities had very clear rules about this. the only official references that were given came from the human resources department on their letterhead and all they provided was our date of hire, the date we left employment (this is called termination) and our job position. if this reference was something the nursing home asked you to have filled out, your manager probably should have given it to the human resources department. ask the nursing home for a copy of it. give a copy to the human resources department where this manager works along with a letter of complaint about what she has done costing you a job. if she did this against a company rule she has put the facility in a terrible position and is in a great deal of trouble herself. you could very well hold the reins for her getting into a lot of trouble here. if that is the case, look for a lawyer because you probably have a good case for something you can collect against the facility (not the nurse manager) because of the manager's violation of their policies regarding job references. but litigation takes a long time. fourth, find someone else to be a personal reference for you. discuss what this manager did with the director of nursing. she wronged you badly. handle this very responsibly. you have the upper hand now, so don't blow this and act better than your manager did. you can write a formal letter and specifically state that in a letter of reference you do not want any mention made of your behavior or attitude and only things such as attendance and scores on evaluations can be addressed, or something like that and the facility must comply with your directions. some employers flat out state they will not give out references except for, as i stated above, dates of hire/termination and position. most employers accept that. get a friend or a charge nurse who liked you to provide a personal character reference.

[Jolie, BSN]

Daytonite,

I thinkyou may find this article enlightening:

Full article: Is there a duty to disclose in employment references? (Honesty is the Best Policy).

By Stokes, Pamela P.

Publication: Business Forum

Date: Thursday, June 22 2000

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/law.../722564-1.html

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I believe that ethically, she was wrong...whether she broke a rule or not, I am not sure. Somehow, I suspect that she weaved a web of ungratefulness and entitlement from your asking if you can start at a later date after she offered you a position.

I am pleasently surprized that the other facility actually asked your side of the story. I say that this position is either in the stars or that the Creator is showing that there are some decent people left in the world. Good luck in your new position.

[ac123, MSN, APRN]

Hi everyone,

I asked the NM to be a reference, and she replied that she would indeed and that "you will make a fabulous nurse." Prior to asking her this, she explained to me that the reason I was not hired at her facility is because I was not "as thrilled about the position" as other applicants. I get it and I would not have hired me either. I checked in with her and the nurses throughout my time there to make sure my performance level was fine and I got very positive feedback from everyone including the NM. There are no formal complaints about me at this facility either. The NM should have told me that she did not wish to be a reference if she felt my performance was not perfect. All I got was positive feedback from her, which is why I used her as a reference. Obviously, had I known she would have said less than favorable things about me, I would not have used her. I have 4 other fabulous references that I use and typically do not use her, but this LTC required a 5th reference.

Basically, I am just angry about it because I did not know she felt this way and when given the opportunity to tell me, she chose not to and acted like a phony instead.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. If I do not get the job, I plan on obtaining a copy of the reference and going from there.

[ac123, MSN, APRN]

I also wonder if she said these things because I was not kissing her feet about the positions offered and thus felt that I was entitled.

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

i also wonder if she said these things because i was not kissing her feet about the positions offered and thus felt that i was entitled.

this is not hard to figure out. she's a nasty, passive aggressive person who can't say these things to your face so she chose a sneaky, weasel way to do this. really, you should get a copy of the reference, go to her office, close the door, slam the copy of it on her desk and ask her what the heck she thinks she was doing and that you intend to report this to her supervisor since it is most likely a violation of facility policy for her to put the facility at a risk for a lawsuit and that you were denied a job because of this (and pound on the reference). then leave. scare the you-know-what out of her. i'm telling you, most facilities tell their managers not to fill these references out when employees give them to them. employees don't know that, but the managers do. it's part of their job duties and responsibilities and she made a big boo boo. make her squirm. she wronged you and if you are still an employee this is the same as if she physically hit you. let her bosses know what she is like because if she did this to you she'll do, or has done, it and other things to others. you have a legitimate grievance here. go to the don or someone high up in human resources and get some help with this. you have her by the short hairs here. if you handle this right, by right i mean professionally, you may even get yourself a position in this place on another unit just because they may want to correct the wrong that was done to you (although i wouldn't count on it).

[Jolie, BSN]

really, you should get a copy of the reference, go to her office, close the door, slam the copy of it on her desk and ask her what the heck she thinks she was doing...

this is the professional way to address the situation? i hardly think that threatening assault on a nurse manager, no matter how wrong her actions, is the way to go.

you have a legitimate grievance here. go to the don or someone high up in human resources and get some help with this.

by all means. make a formal complaint. go up the chain of command. but don't resort to, or threaten violence or unprofessional behavior. it makes others very unsympathetic to one's cause and may make the op ineligible for re-hire.