Nursing Insurance??

elkpark · Apr 1, 2008

NSO (http://www.nso.com) and Marsh (http://www.proliability.com) are two companies that get mentioned on this board a lot -- seems most people (who choose to carry insurance) have coverage through one or the other. Some people here have also commented that they get a rider on their homeowner's insurance.

racing-mom4, BSN, RN · Apr 1, 2008

I am interested to see what I learn from this post---I too am a new nurse in just last week I inquired about insurance and I was told by 2 senior nurses one who has traveled and lived in major metro areas that they NEVER had insurance and the one traveler said she was advised that by a lawyer because "people sue where they know there is a pot to gather from" and if they know you have insurance your a prime target to get named in a law suit knowing they will most likely be able to settle something and collect something from the insurance comp. Where as if you do not have the insurance, they can sue you, but never collect because you just dont have it.--and unless you blatantly do something wrong--why bother suing you knowing they wont collect when they can focus thier time and resources going after the bigger pot/hospital/dr .

My come back was "well how do they know you have the insurance to start with?" and was told that say patient A sues the hosp/dr/nursing/lab etc etc etc part of the leg work on the patients As lawyers behalf is to gather the information on the above parties etc etc etc, and in the course of doing that gather the insurance information.

If you are found to have no insurance, they Patient A will go after the bigger pot to gather from aka the hospital/dr.

So that was what I heard from 2 nurses---I am anxious to hear others opinions on this topic.

cpnegrad07 · Apr 1, 2008

I use http://www.hpso.com/professional-liability-insurance/professions-covered.jsp

I don't have a LOT of assets, but i don't want them to get any of it.

tampaflrn6 · Apr 1, 2008

I heard... the hospital will cover your A*s (if they offer Liability Insurance to their employees) if you follow their polices, and the nursing practice. On the other hand, If the hospital's lawyers discover that you FAILED to follow the policies and procedure, YOU are own your own.

That's why I am searching for one....

If you don't tell them you have insurance, then they will not know. They won't find out you will have insurance.

elkpark · Apr 2, 2008

There are several older threads here about the pro and con viewpoints on individual Liability Insurance -- I'm sure they would be easy to find with the "search" button in the upper right hand corner of the screen.

I am one of those nurses who has never practiced a single day of my career without my own coverage; my father is an MD (retired now), and he told me back when I was in nursing school to never even consider practicing without my own, individual coverage -- and everything I've seen since then in the nearly 25 years I've been an RN has just reinforced to me what good advice that was!

If you believe that your employer will protect you if/when the doo-doo hits the fan, I have some swamp land in FL I'd like to sell you! :) I have seen first-hand, many times, how the first thing that happens when something goes seriously sideways in a hospital is that the hospital's attorneys start looking for a nurse or nurses they can blame the situation on in order to reduce the hospital's liability. If that happens, the nurse who gets blamed is left to dangle in the wind -- you are no longer covered under the hospital's insurance, and, if you don't already have your own coverage, there is no insurance company on the planet that will sell you coverage for an event that has already happened -- so you are entirely on your own.

However, it is also true that the chances of a nurse getting sued for malpractice are very slim. On the other hand, most nursing liability policies include coverage for legal representation in the event that you are called as a witness in a case against someone else (oh, say, a physician -- they get sued fairly often, and nurses often get deposed or called as witnesses), or have to go before the BON to defend your license for any reason. Either of those situations is much more likely to occur, over the course of your career, than getting sued yourself, and, in either case, you would definitely want to have legal representation -- and just the first hour of consulting with an attorney would (in most cases) cost you more out of pocket than the annual premium for liability insurance.

However, as you note, there are lots of nurses who feel differently about this topic, and it's something each nurse decides for her/himself.

cpnegrad07 · Apr 2, 2008

Also, (and i learned this from my dad), the hospital insurance companies can decide that settling is in their interest, and that can leave you with a judgment against you. If you want to clear your name, you will be on you own.

Buy the insurance; it is only about $75 a year.

imanedrn · Apr 4, 2008

NSO (www.nso.com) and Marsh (www.proliability.com) are two companies that get mentioned on this board a lot -- seems most people (who choose to carry insurance) have coverage through one or the other. Some people here have also commented that they get a rider on their homeowner's insurance.

I checked out Marsh and noticed they ask what association you're affiliated with. I'm a member of Sigma Theta Tau, but how is that factored into the cost of professional Liability Insurance? Would it matter if I were not a member of any associations?

Miami NightNurse · Apr 4, 2008

I've been a nurse for almost 20 years I have never had malpractice insurance. If you work for a hospital they will cover you. And it's not like you get involved in lawsuits all the time either.

elkpark · Apr 4, 2008

If you work for a hospital they will cover you.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this statement simply is not true. If you've not (yet) found yourself in a situation where you found that out the hard way, you've been lucky so far, but that could change tomorrow.

I worked for my state for several years as a hospital surveyor/inspector and part of my job was investigating deaths, serious injuries (of clients), and other negative events in hospitals. I cannot tell you how many times I saw, firsthand, with my own eyes, the hospital attorneys and administration find a single nurse or few nurses to blame when something had gone terribly wrong, and then fire those nurses (and, of course, report them to the BON for being dangerous and incompetent -- now you're going to need a lawyer to deal with that, too!), often when those nurses clearly (IMHO, after reviewing the record and interviewing everyone involved) hadn't done anything worse than have the bad luck to have been assigned to that particular client on that particular day, in order to make the hospital look less responsible.

The hospital's insurance only covers you as long as you always follow all the hospital's policies and procedures to the letter, and haven't varied from them one iota. Are you confident that you are always doing that? Even if you are, a smart attorney (and those are the only kind hospitals have :)) can find a way to make the argument that you were operating outside the parameters and standards dictated to you by the hospital, and, therefore, are no longer covered. Even if the hospital doesn't cut you loose, that means you are being represented and advised by attorneys who are being paid to protect the hospital's interests, not yours. I, personally, would never find that acceptable, and would never take legal advice or direction from my employer's attorneys.

Obviously, you're free to make your own decision about this, as we all are; but, IMHO, it's extremely naive to believe that your employer will look out for your best interests in a bad situation.

justme1972 · Apr 4, 2008

Here is what we are told in class:

1. A hospital's policy...you can't view it or know it's true coverage, so you don't know how much you are really covered or what exceptions there are to coverage. You only know what they tell you.

2. If the hospital feels you made a mistake or didn't follow procedure, you are on your own.

3. You need a policy to pay for an attorney to be consulted with or to go with you to the BON if your license is at risk....no hospital policy will cover that.

4. If your hospital's policy doesn't cover you for any reason, you can be personally sued.

5. It is a MYTH that you are more likely to be sued if you have insurance. Most hospitals do not require RN's to carry their own Liability Insurance...therefore, you are not required to turn a copy in or to even tell the hospital that you have it....so exactly how is an attorney supposed to figure out IF you have insurance and figure out WHERE you have insurance....and insurance companies are forbidden from releasing that information.

Miami NightNurse · Apr 4, 2008

Elkpark you are probably right. I've just never had that experience. And you are right I'm probably just very lucky. The one law suit I was involved in, the hospital was very supportive of all the nurses called into the suit. But I can see a hospital blaming the nurse in a heartbeat if it got them off the hook-that's human nature.