Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing

I totally agree here! What the Phil. BON is doing is SOOOO UNFAIR :angryfire ! I am also a 2nd-courser who passed the local Dec 2005 boards. I have friends who have made it to the top 10 (3 of them, in fact) but their names were withheld in major newspapers (maybe for lack of space?) since the 1st-coursers were given priority to be announced first. But if you rank the top examinees according to their grades (and not if they are 1st or 2nd-coursers) the first place up to the level of the 7th or 8th place would have been from the 2nd-coursers.

My guess is that they are trying to protect themselves, the professors and the big universities w/c don't cater to 2nd coursers.

Many will ponder why is that 2nd coursers who are on significantly reduced nursing programs studying on not so big schools (w/c cater to them) are faring MUCH better than the regular RN graduate (full 4 yr prgram) who are graduating from these big universities ??

There MUST be something wrong somewhere, right ??

Someone can easily deduce that there must be something inefficient w/ their system (big universities w/ supposedly "better" prof.) OR it just proves that it doesn' really matter where you graduated from. Either way its not good for them.

They are also rumors that they are making the exams "harder" for 2nd coursers and some say its already happening. Frankly, this not so smart.

They will actually making it harder for their "regular RN grad" than the 2nd coursers.

They are really lots of other things that they device to make 2nd coursers look disadvantaged on paper. Thank God for the foreign exams where everthing is fair. Hmmm.... I wonder how many "2nd coursers" and "reg. RNs"

pass those on their 1st try?

Anyway, we shouldn't even think like this? This is what the BON wants and everthing is backfiring on them and who suffers? The "reg. RNs" obviously. That is why they don't have the confidence to even apply right away and gets trapped on the train first and sign a 2 yr contract for meager pay.

If they are doing their program right.. the newly grad should be ready for work. That's the purpose of the Rel. Learning experience (RLE) right? Not just an extra hand (for free) for the affiliate hospital.

Lastly, for those regular RNs reading these. Hope you don't believe what your prof. , etc are saying about the 2nd coursers. Everybody is doing the same local boards, will be doing the same foreign exams and will be doing the same process. How fast will it be get done is up to the individual. Once you graduated, you're on your own. Believe me, these prof., Deans, and schools will not be there for you. Some may disagree with this but its a fact. Why the proliferation of review centers then? Why are some (not all, ok) schools holding the diploma and additional copies of transcripts ?? Why does the transcripts to be passed to the PRC marked with "For Board purposes only". You'll find out about this in the future. You'll find out who's really holding-off who.

These are just my opinion and personal observations. :)

I just dont think that the Phil Board of Nursing will stop second courser from taking Nursing. First of all, majority of these people who are taking nursing wants to get out of the country. we all know that the Philippine economy stays afloat because of all the remittances from OFW, stopping these these second coursers would mean stopping Filipinos going abroad and thus cutting remittances and this would definitely have an impact in the Philippine economy

I just dont think that the Phil Board of Nursing will stop second courser from taking Nursing. First of all, majority of these people who are taking nursing wants to get out of the country. we all know that the Philippine economy stays afloat because of all the remittances from OFW, stopping these these second coursers would mean stopping Filipinos going abroad and thus cutting remittances and this would definitely have an impact in the Philippine economy

I absolutely agree with you. Immigration and colonization for socio-economic reasons has been going on for centuries all over the world. Its a natural event and has been extensively studied and actually benefits both countries. There are no short-cut solutions for these and with the on-going globalization it really makes it easier and faster to do so.

What the BON and the Philippine Gov't are trying to do are short-cut solutions. They are trying to stop the "bleeding" or so they say but in my opinion its not the way to do it. Stopping the "bleeding" is only good if you know you can salvage it but if its already a "gangrene" then you need to cut it off and by not doing it it at the right time will be disatrous. They should let it go (the issue) and concentrate on the overall good effect w/c is you say remittances and increased competitiveness of the health care system here. They should accept that what they are doing is futile and only delays the overall good effects the cycle will bring.

In reality, we have an over supply of RN and MDs and very, very few good hospitals w/c is one of the reason for the meager pay for these two.

Hundreds of sub-standard hospitals are closing because of the lack of RNs and MDs. These is actually good for the long term because believe me its better that you go to a far off but good hospital than settle for a sub-standard hospital nearby. Soon, the cycle will start again and this time new hosptals will open again in the provinces but with better facilities and hopefully better pay and if this time comes, you might see the MDs and RNs going back (better skilled and with lots of money).

i don't know if this has been said already, but i don't think not letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing is the solution to the brain drain. 1) i think the philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the dr's slave or "handmaid". one of the things that attract filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. if the nursing image is better, i think filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) the hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. we should remember that pinoy/pinays who come here straight from the phil. represent the whole country. i would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. and right now, the fil. nurses' image is great.

(i've edited my entry in case anyone else would like to respond. i'm open.)

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think NOT letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing IS the solution to the brain drain. 1) I think the Philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the Dr's Slave or "handmaid". One of the things that attract Filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. If the nursing image is better, I think Filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) The hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. Select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. We should remember that Pinoy/Pinays who come here straight from the Phil. represent the whole country. I would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. And right now, the Fil. nurses' image is great.

I'm sorry but I don't agree w/ you. To study nursing and pursue it as a carreer whether for life or not and for whatever purpose (good ofcourse) entirely belongs to the individual.

Before I continue I'm presuming your a Filipino RN who graduated in the Phils. and went to US for a better life ( pls. correct me if I'm wrong) and that I respect your views.

Here's my point of view: It's very easy to point to other people for motives, etc.. but we should always put ourselves in their shoes. What will I do if I were in their shoes ?? Will I stay in the Phils. and be a martyr and serve while my family is barely coping up with life in the Phils. or will I go abroad to seek a greener pasture? If this was one of the questions for the local boards (w/c it was, actually) then everyone will answer No, I will stay and serve the many poor and ill people in the Phils., blah, blah (ala Ms. Universe Q and A) but the cold fact and reality is majority are thinking of going abroad to have a better compensation. I'm presuming you did too because your in CA and your an RN because your in this part. forum. Pls. correct if I'm wrong again.

This reply is meant not to argue or quarrel w/ someone but just giving a diff. point of view. Again, I respect your views and no one has the right what others can do or not do or what he can't say and can't say. Peace. :)

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think NOT letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing IS the solution to the brain drain. 1) I think the Philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the Dr's Slave or "handmaid". One of the things that attract Filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. If the nursing image is better, I think Filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) The hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. Select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. We should remember that Pinoy/Pinays who come here straight from the Phil. represent the whole country. I would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. And right now, the Fil. nurses' image is great.

Also, I don't agree with the presumption that RNS here in the Phils. are treated as Dr's slaves or to fluff the pillow, etc.. I have NEVER seen this happening in the Phils. The most I see are MDs trying to flirt with RNs and vice versa. :chuckle MDs have their residents, interns and clerks to assist them. RNs whose base-hospitals have medical interns and clerks are also lucky because interns and clerks are actually in-charge of monitoring the V/S, following-up the lab results and making sure once tha lab releases the papers its already in the chart, inserting foley caths, inserting IVs, collecting the urine, wound-care etc.. and no doctor orders an RN to fix the bed, and those kind of stuff because the MDs have no jurisdiction over RNs. All they want are for the orders in the chart to be taken care of and this is the same in all other countries.

The hiring process is entirely up to the employer's requirements and discretion. "Slackers" can be seen everywhere on every occupation, and every race. Its still up to the employer to discipline those who are and their responsibility to not hire or re-hire those who fails to meet their expectations.

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think NOT letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing IS the solution to the brain drain. 1) I think the Philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the Dr's Slave or "handmaid". One of the things that attract Filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. If the nursing image is better, I think Filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) The hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. Select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. We should remember that Pinoy/Pinays who come here straight from the Phil. represent the whole country. I would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. And right now, the Fil. nurses' image is great.

I respect your views but I'm sorry I cannot agree with them. I don't think all 2nd coursers are "slackers". And being a 1st-courser does not guarantee one not to be a "slacker". Actually, in my opinion, since the 2nd-coursers tend to be older, more experienced and have more responsibilities (like older kids with more expensive education, etc,), they tend to stay longer in one employment. And to stay longer in one employment means to do the job well, right? One would not want to bite the hand that's feeding them, right? :)

What the BON and the Philippine Gov't are trying to do are short-cut solutions. They are trying to stop the "bleeding" or so they say but in my opinion its not the way to do it. Stopping the "bleeding" is only good if you know you can salvage it but if its already a "gangrene" then you need to cut it off and by not doing it it at the right time will be disatrous. They should let it go (the issue) and concentrate on the overall good effect w/c is you say remittances and increased competitiveness of the health care system here. They should accept that what they are doing is futile and only delays the overall good effects the cycle will bring.

I agree with your post.

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think NOT letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing IS the solution to the brain drain. 1) I think the Philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the Dr's Slave or "handmaid". One of the things that attract Filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. If the nursing image is better, I think Filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) The hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. Select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. We should remember that Pinoy/Pinays who come here straight from the Phil. represent the whole country. I would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. And right now, the Fil. nurses' image is great.

I don't agree with your opinion though I respect it.

Nobody can stop a person from improving his lot and to have a better future for his children and family be he a 1st or second courser.

I am not a 2nd courser but nursing was not my first choice when I entered college. I shifted to nursing on my second year with the reason that nursing will help me to have a better future. Yes, nursing helped me when I took a job as a medical representative and it also helped me in getting an immigrant visa. I know I can give a good future to my family as a nurse in the US and this sentiment I believe is being shared by almost everybody who are nurses and who are taking up nursing.

And also having qualified nurses, that is the job of the PRC. And slackers are common in every field of profession. We can see them everywhere, in sales and marketing, in nursing, in banking and most especially the Phil goverment.

Just my thought.

I don't agree with your opinion though I respect it.

Nobody can stop a person from improving his lot and to have a better future for his children and family be he a 1st or second courser.

I am not a 2nd courser but nursing was not my first choice when I entered college. I shifted to nursing on my second year with the reason that nursing will help me to have a better future. Yes, nursing helped me when I took a job as a medical representative and it also helped me in getting an immigrant visa. I know I can give a good future to my family as a nurse in the US and this sentiment I believe is being shared by almost everybody who are nurses and who are taking up nursing.

And also having qualified nurses, that is the job of the PRC. And slackers are common in every field of profession. We can see them everywhere, in sales and marketing, in nursing, in banking and most especially the Phil goverment.

Just my thought.

I second the motion. :chuckle

I don't know if this has been said already, but I think NOT letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing IS the solution to the brain drain. 1) I think the Philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the Dr's Slave or "handmaid". One of the things that attract Filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. If the nursing image is better, I think Filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) The hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. Select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. We should remember that Pinoy/Pinays who come here straight from the Phil. represent the whole country. I would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. And right now, the Fil. nurses' image is great.

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if opportunities for respectable pay and growth are only available in the phils., i believe no pinoy in his right mind will ever want to be separated from his loved ones and struggle to fit in a foreign land just to earn a living. better pay indeed indicates if you're valued or treated like cr.... this same thing applies to career shifters. who'd want to go back to school to sweat it out through impossible teachers, papers, exams, requirements and pay ridiculous tuition fees if you already have a rewarding job? i know i wouldn't. (i don't, actually.)

i think that brain drain isn't necessarily a significant factor to pinoy nurses' reputation as it is believed to be a problem in the phils. as someone else has pointed out, some bad eggs shouldn't be cause to consider everyone else rotten in the basket. also, i thought most second coursers shifted careers from some other degree to nursing and not the other way around. i'm sure the case may happen but it shouldn't be that many for employers to have second thoughts about hiring pinoys.

brain drain is an outcome of a deeper problem, and sadly, beyond anyone's power to stop overnight. even the bon is better off focusing into the QUALITY of nurses instead of helplessly trying to cut the seeming endless migration of competent nurses and worrying themselves senseless about whether passers are second or first degree nurses from which named-school. let the schools deal with their own poor passing rate (deficient curriculum? ineffective teachers? inadequate programs??). after all, the bon is supposedly over and above schools' business unless....

like some people here, i share in the idea that the phils. profits from nurses' migration through the remittances pumped back into the economy. it's not very ideal but hey, it's the opportunity that we need.

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if opportunities for respectable pay and growth are only available in the phils., i believe no pinoy in his right mind will ever want to be separated from his loved ones and struggle to fit in a foreign land just to earn a living. better pay indeed indicates if you’re valued or treated like cr…. this same thing applies to career shifters. who’d want to go back to school to sweat it out through impossible teachers, papers, exams, requirements and pay ridiculous tuition fees if you already have a rewarding job? i know i wouldn’t. (i don't, actually.)

i think that brain drain isn't necessarily a significant factor to pinoy nurses' reputation as it is believed to be a problem in the phils. as someone else has pointed out, some bad eggs shouldn't be cause to consider everyone else rotten in the basket. also, i thought most second coursers shifted careers from some other degree to nursing and not the other way around. i'm sure the case may happen but it shouldn't be that many for employers to have second thoughts about hiring pinoys.

brain drain is an outcome of a deeper problem, and sadly, beyond anyone's power to stop overnight. even the bon is better off focusing into the QUALITY of nurses instead of helplessly trying to cut the seeming endless migration of competent nurses and worrying themselves senseless about whether passers are second or first degree nurses from which named-school. let the schools deal with their own poor passing rate (deficient curriculum? ineffective teachers? inadequate programs??). after all, the bon is supposedly over and above schools’ business unless....

like some people here, i share in the idea that the phils. profits from nurses’ migration through the remittances pumped back into the economy. it's not very ideal but hey, it's the opportunity that we need.

Couldn't agree with you more.

It's either you get it or not. Unfortunately our BON and Gov't don't get it.

Yap, its really deep-seated. It started with our domestic helpers, and teachers, and other OFWs. Did anything collapse by the way? Ofcourse thw quality of education nowadays isn't comparable to the later decades but it didn't collapse and sadly, after decades of these there were no significant increase in teacher's pay.

Unless, the Gov't admits the real problem there can be no real solution and don't expect the pay for doctors and RNs here will increase even significantly decades after the so-called "exodus". Our Gov't just don't compete !! Opportunities, opportunities, opportunities, is the answer and if we want high paying jobs we must bring in foreign investors.

The proliferation of call centers and med transcription centers are the best example. They get better pay than most professionals here. We should have more like this in all industries, esp. the health sector. The medical tourism initiative is also a good stepping stone. These are but some examples of how to help the health sector not just delaying the migration process.

One more thing.. 2nd coursers only make up a minority of nurses trying to go abroad. So, if we really want to stop "brain-drain" of med professionals going abroad then we must stop the 1st coursers to go because they make up the majority of those who want to go abroad.

He, he, he, just kidding. No one has the right to say those things to anyone.

I just find it very funny that if we follow their line of logic the statement above is really the best solution. Just couldn't comprehend why they keep pointing on others when they should be pointing on themselves and some who do these are actually are already working in the US as a RN and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the members of the BON have at least one relative going to the US to work as a nurse. Very funny indeed. There is a term for these I think.

One good thing is.. majority of 1st coursers "do" get it, esp. the recent grads and they are the silent majority. Good for them. We should help each other out rather than put down one another.