What happens if we DON'T recommend nursing as a career?

sonnie · Oct 6, 2000

Originally posted by nursedude:
I just can't resist...

I'm a guy so I think I ought to be paid more than a female RN...?

Look ladies, you are squabbling over non-sense...BSN, ADN, MSN bla, bla bla. Don't you freaking get it? There are garbage men, plumbers and drywall hangers that make more than all of you!!! For crying out loud, the guy who changes the oil and filter in your car probably does better financially than a lot of RN's regardless of whether or not the RN has a degree!

The CEO at the last insurance company that I worked for ONLY HAD a bachelors degree and guess what? His degree wasn't in healthcare or even business! He had a BS in education and he was running a multi-billion operation! Meanwhile, out in the trenches, there where folks with masters degrees and bachelor degrees and MD's who all made a fraction of what he did...

Don't you girls get it? It's not about what piece of paper you have - It's more about the set of doodads between the legs of the majority of the workers in any given profession.

As stated elswhere on this board, nursing has traditionally been a womans profession and therefore, nurses have been paid like, well...women. The current salaries earned by nurses are what they are most likely because of the fact that nursing is a thankless profession and therefore there has never been an oversupply of nurses. The current shortage of nurses is nothing new really- I honestly can't recall ever having "too many nurses" working in any of my hospital jobs- can you?

I know I will have stepped on a few toes with thess statements but at least I didn't do it wearing high heels!!!

Nursedude

I'm really hating this but... I have to agree with you 100% historically women have been paid far less than their male counterparts. My husband works for a rare metals manufacturing plant and makes only a few dollars less per hour than I. He has been at his job for 5 years I've been at mine for 13 and have a college degree. Difference??? Just look in the pants!!!

To those who I offended and upset:

I made all my comments in general terms. I have known great nurses from all education backgrounds. I still stick to my comment that if the NCLEX is only a minimum standard and historically BSNs score lower than what does that say for the BSN nurse??? I still believe you need to judge each nurse on his or her own abilities not on their education!!! Oh by the way I do have a management position but I also work the floor with my nurses. That's what you do when you work in a small rural hospital. I make good money

lita1857 · Oct 6, 2000

Did I detect A sense of agreeing among nursedude and sonnie??? Nahhh couldn't be...maybe? 2 sides to every coin.....

ShannonB25 · Oct 6, 2000

Sonnie,

I assume that at least part of your comment was directed toward me as I had posted regarding BSN as a minimum entry for nursing. Again- if you will check your stats you will see a NEGLIGIBLE difference in passing rates among the various programs. And if we need to get right down to it there could be other factors that influence that passing rate beyond just schooling (such as age, life experience, etc) I don't claim to have the answer to this phenomena, however, I certainly wouldn't use that statistic as a crutch for my side of the debate if the shoe was on the other foot. By the way, I am not looking down my nose at ANYONE in regards to this issue or any other for that matter. But in terms of education, I suppose if you are lacking a bachelor's degree, a "more educated" nose it may very well be. As for "those who don't have the opportunities that you had for your education" let me just say this. It has been a hard road for me to pursue my BSN. I have had absolutely not one cent of help from anyone. This is not griping, this is a fact. I feel extremely empowered that even though there were plenty of sacrifices along the way I have kept my head on straight and have achieved my goal. I feel like if I can do it, anyone can.

I apologize if I sound bitter with this post. I am not angry towards you, Sonnie, but merely at the limitations I believe that this is having on nursing as we insist that the only way that people can enter the profession is by offering all three programs. Please don't misinterpret me...I think that all programs have the potential to produce excellent nurses and they have. But for our profession to meet its fullest potential and to be taken as seriously as others have, we need to at least be consistent with our requirements to work as a nurse. A basic BSN requirement doesn't seem too much to ask for the betterment of the profession at large.

LRB · Oct 7, 2000

shannon,

I have to tell you that your basic BSN requirement is for the birds!!! I am an ADN and work in a Surgical/Trauma ICU and my boss has recently hired new BSN grads. They don't even know how to put in a damn foley, let alone take care of a critical patient. I could see BSN as a basic requirement if they got the hands on clinical experience instead of the theory crap.

Mijourney · Oct 8, 2000

Well nursedude, you've done it again in your typical "out of the box" style. That should keep "the flames of passion" burning awhile longer. Oh, you forgot to mention that the dog catcher makes more than a nurse.

HazeK · Oct 8, 2000

These postings have been fun to read.......... and to see the transition to a conversation about BSN vs ADN vs Diploma education!

OK, I do have my BSN (...& am proud of it)..... I did work as a CNA while going to college, to increase my patient-contact time.

I DO agree that many ADN courses have initially more clinical time...

therefore, ON INITIAL HIRE, the ADN graduates may indeed be more proficient than the BSN grad.....but I do feel my leadership & pathophys courses kicked in promptly.

I do agree that a good nurse is determined MORE by the individual than the course they attend.

Do I encourage students to take the BSN over the ADN program?

ABSOLUTELY! Why? Not the $$ but TO INCREASE THE PROFESSIONALISM & THE PERCEPTION OF NURSING AS A PROFESSION!

We call nursing a profession...yet it doesn't require a full college degree....

and yes, I must agree with NurseDude, that one of the reasons we are underpaid is the lack of balls swinging between our legs.....ask ANY other women professionals about THEIR "glass ceiling" problems! Too many people still see nurses as women who work for "a little extra money for their family" or women who go into nursing later in life as " bored little women who need something to fill their time!"

Hopefully the Million Nurse March media promos/activities will help to explain who we really, truely are: Essential Professionals in the Health Care Industry!

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OC_An Khe · Nov 13, 2000

I've just finished reading this thread and others that nursedude has started and continued. Interesting discussions, and I agree with nursedude. Until we nurses demand the three r's... recognition, respect and reward for our profession we will be second class laborers. There has been a gender overtone to this thread so I might as well add to it. Nursing has alot of traits and characteristics that one could argueably describe as feminine. This is fine, however nursinfg is also a female profession. The characteristics of a female dominated work force is no respect, little or no recognition, less monetary rewards, and virtually no one other than our patients and a few MD's listen to our professional opinions. What profession doesn't charge for their services or do we consider room and board nursing service?

For the record I'm of the male gender, an RN for 25 years have a BSN and I confess an Masters from a business school, still a bedside nurse (prefer the company of RN's to bean counters)

purplevik · Apr 25, 2001

I am going to start nursing school in about 1 1/2 weeks. I am beginning to think twice about this career! I am reading all these artiles about salary and working conditions. I got into nursing because i wanted to help the ill, now if it's going to take me away from my family and the working condition are that awful, then I think I sould just go into the law field. from what i read I think the law field pays a whole lot more with little stress and 9-5 and weekend and holiday off. "no wonder there is such a shortage" I was really excited about entering the nursing program, but now i am asking myself if I should really go through this. please tell me that this is just a nightmare and not real! i really think nurses should get paid more and have better working conditions, aren't nurses the ones who take care of a human life "isn't that worth something?" need a little help! any would be great!! all you nurses need respect and better things offered to you!!!!!!!

buffett · Jun 18, 2001

I have been reading and following here for a while without posting but I want some feedback (please) on this.

First off, I am 28, male, and in sales in the computer industry... and bored senseless! Yes making decent money and that is important but not everything!

I have a BS in bio and am planning to return this fall for a BSN in a 16 month acclerated program. I live in San Diego and most nurse friends I have enjoy their job... one is 29 and makes 80K per year and is not an agency or travel nurse. That may not be the norm and yes it is expensive to live here but others I talked to said you can start pretty close to 50K/year.

I have always wanted something in the health field and nursing seems to me to be a good choice. You can be a generalist or specialize and switch when you get bored. You can also go back for an NP or CRNA degree for more autonomy and more money.

I shadowed a CRNA recently and seems like a nice job and they are very in demand as are all nurses right now. I am hoping to get my BSN, go into an ICU dept, work for a year or more then on to CRNA school... but if that doesn't happen I still think with all the publicity and the shortage things will improve in the near future, at least financially...

Any advice or comments are appreciated.

Diana61 · Jul 3, 2001

What's all this about "loving what we do?!? I don't care if the nurse who takes care of me loves or hates what she does, what I care about is if she's competent and relates to me in a professional manner so I can get back safely to my home and my family. I was one of the few nurses who did love what I did, but that didn't pay the bills so now I don't do what I love but I get paid more. Unfortunately a lot of other nurses feel the same as I. Would I recommend nursing to a young person? Not if I was fond of that person. At one time women only became nurses, teachers or secretaries. All women, IQ of 150 down to 90 (or so). This isn't the case today. Women don't have to put up with these working conditions and substandard wages. A women who is in the upper part of her class can for example, become a physician (at a salary many, many, many times that of a nurse). What woman in her right mind would choose nursing if she had the brains and the initiative to do something else. ( or man for that matter?)

Katmease · Jul 3, 2001

Originally posted by Diana61
What's all this about "loving what we do?!? I don't care if the nurse who takes care of me loves or hates what she does, what I care about is if she's competent and relates to me in a professional manner so I can get back safely to my home and my family. I was one of the few nurses who did love what I did, but that didn't pay the bills so now I don't do what I love but I get paid more. Unfortunately a lot of other nurses feel the same as I. Would I recommend nursing to a young person? Not if I was fond of that person. At one time women only became nurses, teachers or secretaries. All women, IQ of 150 down to 90 (or so). This isn't the case today. Women don't have to put up with these working conditions and substandard wages. A women who is in the upper part of her class can for example, become a physician (at a salary many, many, many times that of a nurse). What woman in her right mind would choose nursing if she had the brains and the initiative to do something else. ( or man for that matter?)

I guess I must not be in my "right mind"; what about you? Yes, I feel that I have the brain capacity to be a physician if I so desired; however, I prefer more patient contact & helping a person deal with what is happening to them, not just making a dx & out the door. You sound incredibly bitter. Grow up & deal with the fact that life is not a bed of roses but you can plant a few as you go.

Katmease · Jul 3, 2001

By the way, I used to be an Engineer. Does that make mean that I demoted/demeaned myself? I don't think so.