Maybe a stupid question..

Nurses Professionalism

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A male co worker was suspended possibly fired (we do not have all of the details) over sexual harassment. This was after complaints of many female co workers. Their complaints were he touched their arms or backs (above the waist) or offered massages. I don't think he meant any of this is a sexual nature I think he's just a touchy guy. No one ever said this makes me uncomfortable please stop. Instead they let it go on for months and finally decided to go to the manager. This guy wasn't a good nurse he was a new grad and still learning and making the effort to learn. I think more than anything he was trying to fit in with his female co workers and just didn't understand you can't just be going around giving back massages. We have a zero tolerance policy so we are speculating he has more than likely been fired. If no one told him this makes them uncomfortable and he wasn't making sexual advances along with these and not groping or saying offensive things along with this, is this fair? I just feel terrible for a guy who's career is potentially ruined who I don't think meant anything wrong just has a lack of professional boundaries and saw other people doing it and followed suite. Not that following suite when you are sexually harassing someone makes it ok, but since it wasn't out and out sexual harassment just touching backs and offering massages and not being told to stop and probably being terminated over which I think is just a reason to get rid of him. Thoughts on this? I'm probably not explaining good I've worked all night and am kinda tired and I'm not defending sexual harassment in any form, but I think this was just stupidity or naievity lack of experience in the professional world etc.

At my old job I was a new worker. The Physical therapist was very touchy!

I hated it! I didn't tell him to stop, because I did not want to put a target on my back. I did start to act more cold indirectly toward him and he stopped touching me!

The new guy shouldn't have done that!

Specializes in Med/Surg/Infection Control/Geriatrics.
A male co worker was suspended possibly fired (we do not have all of the details) over sexual harassment. This was after complaints of many female co workers. Their complaints were he touched their arms or backs (above the waist) or offered massages. I don't think he meant any of this is a sexual nature I think he's just a touchy guy. No one ever said this makes me uncomfortable please stop. Instead they let it go on for months and finally decided to go to the manager. This guy wasn't a good nurse he was a new grad and still learning and making the effort to learn. I think more than anything he was trying to fit in with his female co workers and just didn't understand you can't just be going around giving back massages. We have a zero tolerance policy so we are speculating he has more than likely been fired. If no one told him this makes them uncomfortable and he wasn't making sexual advances along with these and not groping or saying offensive things along with this, is this fair? I just feel terrible for a guy who's career is potentially ruined who I don't think meant anything wrong just has a lack of professional boundaries and saw other people doing it and followed suite. Not that following suite when you are sexually harassing someone makes it ok, but since it wasn't out and out sexual harassment just touching backs and offering massages and not being told to stop and probably being terminated over which I think is just a reason to get rid of him. Thoughts on this? I'm probably not explaining good I've worked all night and am kinda tired and I'm not defending sexual harassment in any form, but I think this was just stupidity or naievity lack of experience in the professional world etc.

Yes, it's hard to see someone new in the field who means well, trip himself. You explained it just fine. I am sorry that this happened. Hopefully he will be able to recover himself and press on.

Back in the 1990s when I was working the Spine Unit at a local hospital, it wasn't unusual for us to give one another a shoulder rub due to the heavy physical work we were doing. One of us was taking a class in massage and she did it very well. We always appreciated it. But it was just us girls. The guys knew enough not to invade our space for such things.

It's a delicate balance to be sure!

Specializes in Med/Surg/Infection Control/Geriatrics.
Regardless of if the women asked him to stop and regardless of how long someone has been there: you need to ask permission before touching anybody in the workplace. Period.

I agree.

Seems like he could have have been given a warning in the fair ideal world. As we all have discovered~ life ain't fair. Op you say others were doing it and he just followed suit. So if its zero tolerance why do the others get away with it? That makes no sense at all.

Isn't it ironic we're actually taught different types of back rubs for our patients e.g. am and hs after baths? Not like we actually have the time to do them. It sure would be lovely in an ideal fully staffed world.

Maybe he was practicing Healing Touch in his mind.

If someone didn't like it they didn't even have to say anything just get up and walk off! Aren't we supposed to be working anyhow?

How many massagers were on this unit anyhow? You say he was just following suit.

Op, what happened? Was he fired or 'suspended' ?

Specializes in ER, ICU.

Did he offer this to the guys on the unit? If not, it was sexually motivated.

Saturday night live did a relevant video on this years ago. If you're a hot guy you can offer massages, if you're an ugly guy.....you're getting g fired for sexual harassment.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Saturday night live did a relevant video on this years ago. If you're a hot guy you can offer massages, if you're an ugly guy.....you're getting g fired for sexual harassment.

That's in rather poor taste in this climate, although it may have been funny years ago.

There's a reason women are too intimidated to tell someone to stop massaging their backs, etc. It has to do with the rape culture and the patriarchal society and all of that which has been discussed incessantly in the past six months. A women may HATE to be touched, but because of societal conditioning or past experiences, she knows she won't be taken seriously if she tries to put a stop to it. In some environments, she may be hesitant to say anything because it could be detrimental to her career. We get quite adept at telling ourselves "It's no big deal" or "He doesn't mean anything by it" when, in truth, it IS a big deal and he DOES mean something by it. The fact that the guy was a new orientee means he probably did not have enough power in the workplace to make things difficult for a woman who told him "no", but again, that might not be the case.

I'm not sure how you KNOW that "no one ever told him this makes me uncomfortable or told him to stop." Unless you were present every. single. time. If you weren't, you honestly don't know what exactly transpired. Even if you were present every single time, someone may have said nothing in the nurse's station (to avoid creating a scene) and then taken him aside later in private and said "It makes me uncomfortable when you touch me. Please don't do it again."

People may have been telling him over and over for months that they weren't comfortable with what he was doing and he didn't "get it." Or he did get it and didn't care. Or he didn't think it was a big deal even if they did. Or something. The fact that other guys do it and it's OK isn't relevant. There may be something about the relationships these other guys have developed with some of their colleagues that makes it OK while having some random newbie sneak up behind you to massage your shoulders is NOT OK.

Maybe he wasn't groping them -- but maybe he was and you missed it. Maybe he was taking the opportunity to look down their shirts. Maybe he triggered someone's PTSD left over from that time she was raped. Or groped on the subway. Or sexually assaulted by a "friend" at the Christmas party or whatever. Neck massages, shoulder and back massages are pretty well-known grooming behaviors that harassers employ when they've marked someone they're interested in. He may have been engaging in grooming, or he may have triggered someone who had been groomed in the past. Maybe the women involved were giving clear signals to back off, and perhaps they were too intimidated to do so.

I think it's completely fair to suspend or terminate a male employee who is making his female colleagues uncomfortable with unwanted touching. Especially in this post-Weinstein climate. He shouldn't have been touching his colleagues without invitation. Period. Ever. The only time you touch a colleague without invitation is when the roof is caving in and you're snatching them out of danger. Or if they're your best friend and you KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that touching is OK. Or, that time when our colleague died in the OR and we were all standing in the nurse's station hugging and crying and waiting to find out the result of the code we all knew was going on because the surgical fellow came to our unit to get the ECMO.

What your now-former colleague did was stupid. Maybe he had no idea that he was making people uncomfortable. That doesn't speak well for his ability to pick up on social cues, and one might wonder about his interactions with female patients or with female family members of patients. I think your outrage on his behalf is misplaced.

Thank you! From the very beginning when I read the OP, I thought "How the heck would SHE know if NO ONE had ever complained?!? Unless she works every shift with this guy and follows him around the entire shift, there is no way she could possibly know whether or not anyone has ever complained about it.

I also agree that there are many reasons why people don't speak up about or report behavior they find inappropriate in the moment. That does not mean they are okay with it.

That's in rather poor taste in this climate, although it may have been funny years ago.

And yet as this case appears to demonstrate, it still remains true.

Original video:

Liveleak.com - Excellent Training film on sexual harassment,(Staring NFL QB Tom Brady)

Poor Fred...:roflmao:

I love that guy...Fred. :D

Plus that was good sportsmanship on Tom Brady's part to play along in those whitey tighties and all! :roflmao:

I am of the male persuasion. #Metoo notwithstanding, I don't really want to be touched by anybody at work either. Sounds like a slightly weird work culture to me, but whatever. I guess it could seem slightly unfair that this guy was fired because he just doesn't seem to get it. But I don't think the onus should be on the people he was touching to always correct him because: in this day and age, OMG dudes should know better. Keep it professional meaning don't touch people like that. It's the easy way to not have any problems. The end. Good day.

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