Is Health Care a Right? - page 21
Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More
Jan 29, '03[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
[B]You took it out of context. Read the quote TN quoted then my reply...do I need to explain? If I was wrong, then I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
Gee Sally...........I was merely agreeing with you. You're the one who says he is our oh so great leader. I agree he is great. You brought up his speech. I pointed out that he stated he wasn't in favor of nationalized health care because in your reply to Suzy you made it sound like he said "thats right Ms Sally, I totally agree with You. When you say all-knowing you ARE putting words into my mouth. It is beginning to look like there is someone on this very BB who thinks they are all-knowing.
Jan 30, '03Okay, whatever, I'll strike it.
And your comment about me being all knowing---I'll take as a compliment.Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 30, '03
Jan 30, '03Originally posted by TNcanNURSE
there is someone on this very BB who thinks they are all-knowing.
Jan 30, '03This is a very good question. The answer is not an obvious one. I believe one should approach it by comparing it to other known rights that we have in this society; education, for instance. We know that, in our society, education is a right. I see health care as important as education. Therefore, I would agree; yes, I believe health care is a right. In terms of its cost, I will say as Abraham Lincoln said about education: "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." If you think universal health care is expensive, try a society where health care is virtually nonexistent.Last edit by sony on Jan 30, '03
Jan 30, '03Originally posted by Susy K
We can't deduct our kids for tax purposes as we don't have any.\
Jan 30, '03Btw, with regard to the original question:
Is health care a right? -- NO
SHOULD health care be a right? -- YES
Jan 30, '03I think that Universal Health care should be put in to place in America. There are, however, pro's and con's to implementing it in the US. Pros: Everyone has access to equal healthcare no matter how much money they make, like it is mentioned above. The government has the capability to do this with taxes. If they would implement a flat tax rate of 10% no matter what the income, they would be exploding with money and not know what to do with it because the people lucky enough to make millions of dollars would now have to pay what they should and the low class person would pay 10% which would equal out to less than what they are paying now. It could be done. The cons, on the other hand, are that since America is a melting pot and has no regulation whatsoever on who can access healthcare, such as illegal immigrants, it would still be abused as it is today by people who are not citizens and not paying taxes and their part for access to healthcare. Yes it should be done and could be done, the government needs to regulate quite a bit better.
Jan 30, '03No one has responded to a point I made a while ago, but I buried it in another post, so I'll give it the spot light in this post. Those of you who feel health care is a right, feel free to rebut.
The initial question was "Is healthcare a right?" Before we get into that question, consider a couple of our other rights:
Speech: I am free to hold any political view, distasteful or not, and publically espouse that view without fear of governmental retribution. The cost of this right to others? Zero. If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to debate me, or simply walk away if you don't want to hear it.
Religion: I am free to worship (or not) any way I see fit. Cost to others? Again, zero. My religious beliefs are my own business, and the government has no right to interfere so long as my practice of religion does not violate law or infringe on the rights of others.
There is the central theme here. I have rights, but my rights cannot infringe on the rights of others. None of our rights outlined in the constitution extend to allowing us to violate the rights of others, and for good reason. If such a thing was allowed, then we would be in a position where the courts would be in a constant state of decision about whose rights were paramount.
Now, consider that the constitution gives me the right to "pursue happiness." Suppose in that pursuit, I want to amass wealth. I am, within the tax laws, allowed to do so to the best of my legal ability. But, a universal health care plan, regardless of what we are told elsewhere, will cost the US money. That money does not come from trees, the government gets it by taxing the citizenry. Hence, my right to pursue happiness is infringed upon by someone elses "right" to health care.
I know, we are already taxed to support government, provide for the common defense and the security and peace of the homeland, but these are also allowed for as duties of the government in the constitution. They provide for the common good. Without them, the point of pursuing happiness becomes moot, because every tin pot dictator will come along and kick over our apple cart. Universal health care provides for the good of some, at the expense of others.
The point is that the rights intended in the constitution were there as freedoms. They do not have cost, and in order to grant one person those rights, we do not have to impose a burden on someone else. Universal health care does not pass this simple test, no matter how you try to explain it. In other words, health care ain't free. In order to grant one person the "right" of access to health care, you must impose on someone else the burden of paying for that right.
Logically, then health care cannot be a "right."
Kevin McHughLast edit by kmchugh on Jan 30, '03
Jan 30, '03Originally posted by OzNurse69
Susy, (slightly off topic here --) are you saying that you can actually use children as a tax deduction in the US?? We can't even claim childcare here, as it is apparently not "an expense incurred in earning an income" -- (so tell me what it is, then?? Boy, no wonder your economy is screwed!!
Yes here in the United States, people can use their children as tax deductions, therefore, keeping more of their earned income to themselves. So, since I don't have any kids, I can't deduct them and therefore give up more of my money than my counterpart with kids.
As far as your system over there, why is our economy screwed if your system is the one not allowing you to claim childcare expenses? Maybe I am not understanding your posts.
Jan 30, '03Originally posted by kmchugh
In all seriousness, your post was very logical.
Jan 30, '03I think a lot of vets (some of whom were drafted) will tell you that your liberties are not "free". Their rights were interrupted (sometimes permanently) in order to provide rights to others. Not to mention that if they didn't lose lives or health, sometimes return only to find they've lost their livelihood.
Jan 30, '03Originally posted by researchrabbit
I think a lot of vets (some of whom were drafted) will tell you that your liberties are not "free". Their rights were interrupted (sometimes permanently) in order to provide rights to others. Not to mention that if they didn't lose lives or health, sometimes return only to find they've lost their livelihood.
Jan 30, '03Well, IMHO, it is difficult for all of us, coming from totally different countries, with very different health-policies, to understand each other.
For me it is hard to understand, that a country known for its technoligiies and medical on the top universities, where we send our sick too, paid for by the local insurances here, can't or won't take care of their own, not so very fortunate citizens.
On the other hand, it might be hard for you to understand, that we pay a mountain of taxes every month, in order to give other citizens of our country the possibility to be unemployed and still have health-insurance. Or for every mother- to- be, a doctor pre- and postnatal (plus pediatricians for her child) even when she never worked in her whole life.
Our systems are abslotutely in contrast with each other, but I think we can all learn, by comparing and asking each other questions.